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Skipping French Without Toil | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Programs, Books & Tapes |  | |
| ericblair Senior Member United States Joined 4710 days ago 480 posts - 700 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: French | Message 1 of 12 22 September 2012 at 12:21am | IP Logged | |||||
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Hey all,
I am one of those sad individuals that has spent more time reading old threads on here than actually studying languages! However, I finally have gotten into a good rhythm and am chugging along quite nicely in New French With Ease. There seem to be many, many conflicting ideas on how best to integrate French Without Toil by those that are starting with NFWE. I have Using French and 100% plan to use it at some point after NFWE. I am sure French Without Toil must cover more than NFWE since it is quite a bit longer. However, I was wondering if there is anything covered in FWOT that is not covered in Using French? I was just trying to think of the best way to cover all the basics while keeping in mind the end result is to use native materials. I plan to do that along the way, but in terms of courses, what do you all think of this: 1. New French With Ease 2. Linguaphone French (1970's) (start this soon and finish while still working the active phase of NFWE) This was where I was originally thinking of doing French Without Toil. However, it is tough to parse the difference between the true value of the course at this point versus those who simply have fond memories of their own use of French Without Toil. Instead of using it at this point, I was considering: 3. Using a grammar book! Instead of going right into another course, consolidate what I know by working through either Essential French Grammar, Schaum's Outline, French Bertliz Grammar, etc... (this book can be determined later) 4. At the same time, once I am totally done with #1 and #2, start working through the grammar book and using French In Action. 5. Go into Using French So, more succinctly: New French With Ease and Linguaphone at the same time. Once I finish the first of these courses, begin a grammar book. Once I finish the second of the two between NFWE and Linguaphone, start French in Action. Once I am done with the grammar book, continue with FIA, and start the passive phase of Using French. Does this seem reasonable to anyone? Keep in mind I will be doing my best to integrate speaking to natives on Skype and such along the way. For those that have completed some, or all, of the above, would doing it this way cause me to be missing anything from French Without Toil other than the enjoyment of a great course? If I would be missing something, or you think I would be better served still using FWT, where should I work it into the above plan? Also, if anyone thinks I should re-arrange how I am doing things, I am open to suggestions. All I have going on now is I am on Lesson 12 of NFWE in the passive phase. As always, thanks everyone! Edited by ericblair on 22 September 2012 at 12:28am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| kanewai Triglot Senior Member United States justpaste.it/kanewai Joined 4888 days ago 1386 posts - 3054 votes Speaks: English*, French, Marshallese Studies: Italian, Spanish | Message 2 of 12 22 September 2012 at 1:17am | IP Logged | |||||
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I'm always making (and changing) plans like this!
I think a grammar book is a nice way to consolidate what you'll have learned with French with Ease. And having a reference book will definitely help with Using French, especially in keeping track of all the verb tenses. I tried Linguaphone All Talk (Italian) and hated hated hated it. It really was All Talk, but in English - it felt like the ration of English to Italian was 4:1. I've read that the 1970's courses were much better. After all that, French with Action might be a little too easy. I'd start watching it earlier. I also think you'll be ready to move on to Using French, without having to do another older Assimil beginner course. The only thing I see you missing are courses to help you speak! I'd keep an eye out for a discount copy of Pimsleur or Michel Thomas. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| sillygoose1 Tetraglot Senior Member United States Joined 4635 days ago 566 posts - 814 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, Spanish, French Studies: German, Latin | Message 3 of 12 22 September 2012 at 1:42am | IP Logged | |||||
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As kanewai said, FIA will probably be easy after getting through NFWE, Linguaphone, and Using. Unless you really like FIA, I'd skip it.
FWT basically covers the same stuff as NFWE & Using combined, but Using goes more in depth than FWT I believe. I don't remember if any of the literary tenses were covered in FWT because I didn't complete it. They are covered very well in Using though. The grammar book I used was Essential French Grammar which was recommended to me by emk. It's really all you need and it's cheap. If you think you can handle NFWE, FWT, Linguaphone, and Using then I'd say definitely go for it. Edited by sillygoose1 on 22 September 2012 at 1:44am 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| ericblair Senior Member United States Joined 4710 days ago 480 posts - 700 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French | Message 4 of 12 22 September 2012 at 3:29am | IP Logged | |||||
Yeah, I really enjoy making gameplans along the way, even if I do not stick to them. It sort of helps me keep my eyes on the prize, in a way. I do have the Paul Noble course. I like it a bit better than MT since it uses the native French speaker and I don't have to hear mistakes, etc...I enjoy hearing only proper pronunciation. Pimsleur was about to drive me mad, haha. It was SO slow. It honestly just does not work for me. I am glad for those it does, but it isn't for me, haha. I suppose it may make sense to finish up French with Paul Noble at least before going on to Linguaphone? And, you are right, I have seen both series, and they are entirely different products when comparing the old Linguaphone to the All Talk series. I am actually glad to hear that FIA may be too easy at that point. It makes me think I'd be ready to start watching "real" French media. So, in terms of a new plan based off your input: 1. Continue with NFWE 2. Finish French w/ Paul Noble 3. Begin Linguaphone French 4. Work through a grammar book once I finish either NFWE or Linguaphone (almost assuredly Linguaphone since the course is much shorter due to Assimil having the 2 waves) 5. Once I am done with NFWE active phase, begin the Using French passive wave as I continue work on the grammar book.
I actually have no interest in French in Action, haha. It just got rave reviews on here. Hmm, so since I definitely want to do Using French, the only benefit of FWT would be to give me a bit more exposure to some of the concepts that would be seen more in-depth in Using French? Do you think that after doing NFWE, Linguaphone, French w/ Paul Noble, and the Essential French Grammar book, that I'd be ready to take on Using French even without French Without Toil under my belt? I know it is significantly more difficult from what I have read on here, so I wasn't sure. But I don't want to risk "Assimil burn-out" by doing all 3, haha. Also, I am likely starting graduate school around June 1st, so I liked the idea of having all these under my belt by then (grad school is unrelated to language study, haha). So, basically, I am glad FIA doesn't seem needed in this. Do you think my updated order of stuff in my reply to kanewai seems reasonable in terms of not having anything be too huge of a jump? : 1. French with Paul Noble 2. New French With Ease 3. Linguaphone French - 1970's 4. Essential French Grammar (or equivalent grammar book) 5. Using French All the while, practicing conversation on Skype and such. It seems like a rather reasonable path to me, haha. However, I am only in Week 2 of NFWE's passive phase and a few CD's into Paul Noble's course, so hearing from others is always nice. Also, I was going to comment that it seemed surprising a ~50 year old grammar book would still be that helpful since the only edition of Essential French Grammar I see is from 1961. But, I suppose grammar changes much less than vocab/slang, so that makes sense. Nice to see it can be had for less than $10! 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| sillygoose1 Tetraglot Senior Member United States Joined 4635 days ago 566 posts - 814 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, Spanish, French Studies: German, Latin | Message 5 of 12 22 September 2012 at 4:01am | IP Logged | |||||
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Honestly, you would be ready to take on Using French after just doing NFWE and nothing else. NFWE is setup quite nicely towards the end to get you ready for it.
Chances are you will reach an Assimil burnout, which isn't a problem. I tried doing both at once for like a week before I got fed up. FWT isn't all that important, you would be fine with NFWE/Using. I don't know which order out of the two to tell you would be better because its pretty much the same material except in a different order, but this is the order I used: 1. French 101 @ university (in place of your Paul Noble) 2. NFWE/Linguaphone 3. Using French 4. Native materials 5. Essential grammar book I'd say don't worry about grammar so much. It would be fine to just go through a grammar book after Using French. Try to use it as a reference rather than study it because most of the stuff becomes intuitive after a bit. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
 emk Diglot Moderator United States Joined 5531 days ago 2615 posts - 8806 votes Speaks: English*, FrenchB2 Studies: Spanish, Ancient Egyptian Personal Language Map | Message 6 of 12 22 September 2012 at 5:25am | IP Logged | |||||
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Here's one order which might work well, if you want to go for native materials early
on: 1. Start practicing nasal vowels, front round vowels and French R. French Phonology IPA charts 2. Do New French with Ease, active and passive waves, one lesson per day. 3. Build vocabulary, practice reading, firm up your grammar. - Start reading online newspapers, non-fiction or easy fiction with a dictionary. - Do Using French, passive wave. It's OK if some lessons take 2 days. - Copy and paste interesting sentences into Anki. Define new words on the back. - Make cloze cards for grammar, prepositions and connector phrases. - Skim a concise grammar book. 4. Learn to write, activate speech, work hard on listening. - Keep a regular journal on lang-8. See my lang-8 post in the following thread: How to learn to write? - Try to converse several times per week on Skype. - Really work at deciphering clear, well-articulated speech aimed at natives. - Listen to audio in the background, too. 5. Start in on harder native materials. - Read a whole lot. - Find an easy TV series with full transcripts. I went with Buffy: Box set Transcripts - If you somehow find good French subtitles (hah!), strongly consider subs2srs. subs2srs Of course, this is only one possible approach, and you could move stuff around between steps as you wanted. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| tractor Tetraglot Senior Member Norway Joined 5452 days ago 1349 posts - 2292 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, Catalan Studies: French, German, Latin | Message 7 of 12 22 September 2012 at 7:13am | IP Logged | |||||
I am doing French without Toil right now, so my memories are as fresh as they can be. I finished the passive wave some days ago and have 52 lessons left of the active wave. I have already done New French with Ease and the Linguaphone course from the 1970s. They are all great courses. As others have said, you should be able to use Using French after New French with Ease. That's how Assimil designed them. For a true beginner, I think New French with Ease is a better designed course than French without Toil because the progression is much steeper in French without Toil (for a beginner too steep in my opinion). However, there are many positive things to be said about French without Toil: - a storyline that makes the course a bit more engaging - many fun stories and a lot of humour - songs - a more thorough and systematic approach to grammar than NFWE, especially the verb system: * teaches the verb conjugations thoroughly and systematically * teaches both the subjunctive and the conditional in much more depth - many idioms - proverbs - large vocabulary All in all, French without Toil takes you much further than New French with Ease. Edited by tractor on 22 September 2012 at 10:24pm 4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| ericblair Senior Member United States Joined 4710 days ago 480 posts - 700 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French | Message 8 of 12 22 September 2012 at 6:23pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Hmm, thanks for all the input, everyone. I think it is probably just too soon for me to
decide whether I want to do French Without Toil next or not. I tried going through the next cd of Paul Noble this morning, but honestly just found it very boring. I seem to really dislike audio only courses for some reason. I will just continue on with NFWE as I have been doing, and begin on Linguaphone. Since that will surely end sooner than New French With Ease, I will simply revisit the topic of what to do then, when I reach that point. Thanks for all the food for thought! 1 person has voted this message useful |
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