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Why Have Chapters or Lessons? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Programs, Books & Tapes |  | |
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5380 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes  Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 1 of 16 07 October 2012 at 2:52am | IP Logged | ||
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Typically, if not systematically, language books are subdivided into lessons or
chapters, but I can't help wonder why. I suspect writers do it automatically, assuming it's the best way to do it, but what's the point? Why can't the material simply be introduced linearly, gradually through an entire book? I guess it feels better to introduce a dialogue at the beginning of a new lesson, and if you are going to have short cycles of dialogue, vocab, grammar, exercises, then you need some way to start over with a new dialogue, but does it have to be this way? After all, vocabulary and grammar are compounded throughout a book and all you do is pile more and more on top of previous material. Instead, couldn't we just introduce sample sentences, that we explain, then introduce more and more variations and complexity? Have you come across books that had odd structures or didn't follow common methods? 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Eternica Triglot Newbie United States Joined 5071 days ago 24 posts - 74 votes Speaks: Cantonese, English*, French Studies: Hungarian, Spanish | Message 2 of 16 07 October 2012 at 3:58am | IP Logged | ||
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I have pondered upon a more detailed version of this point rather extensively.
Two reasons: 1. Tradition. In the same vein, laziness. This is why there are so many grammar books out there with sections such as "regular -er verbs", "relative clauses", etc. It's so darn easy to make and be robotic about it. Human beings love categorizing things in order to make information logical and digestible, but unfortunately, when it comes to language learning, this just becomes inedible and lifeless. 2. How else do you divide a book into manageable chunks? You have to divide your material somehow for students to be able to find their spot. Anyway, you make an extremely good point, and I'm so glad you posted this. The main thing I think about nowadays is how to create a better approach to language learning. You pretty much hit the main idea what I was planning on doing: start simple and tackle on the complexity later. Michel Thomas does this (so does Pimsleur, but meh), but unfortunately, they are all audio. It's a shame that Michel Thomas doesn't use a written medium. His method would be VASTLY improved if those guys just took advantage of the writing medium as well as the audio. Learning Spanish Like Crazy is an excellent Spanish course that depends on the same principle, but again, it's all audio. If anyone knows any books (any resources, actually) with such a method or another novel one, please post about it here. It's surprising how stilted the bulk of language learning materials are after so many centuries of civilization. I really can't think of any language books that really have a structure that stick out to me. I feel like this is a market someone can tap into. Edited by Eternica on 07 October 2012 at 3:59am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| tommus Senior Member CanadaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5865 days ago 979 posts - 1688 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Dutch, French, Esperanto, German, Spanish | Message 3 of 16 07 October 2012 at 4:41am | IP Logged | ||
I like small, manageable chunks. Small enough to finish in a short period of time, and feel good about "finishing" that part. Then start the next part. Finish it. Feel good again about finishing. I think it would be similar to walking 100 km through the wilderness. If it were all trees along the way and you couldn't see much ahead or behind, it would be very tedious. But if every 10 km or so, you came to a bridge, a farm, a hilltop, a road crossing, a house, etc., it would break up the long walk. You could sense the progress and not get discouraged by wondering how much further there is to go, or when will I get a nice break from the unchanging terrain. Same thing when reading a novel. I don't like long chapters. I like finishing a chapter, even if there is not really a change in the story. I don't like stopping in the middle of a chapter. Probably much of this comes from, as you say, that is the way is usually is. We are used to it. But I can't really see the advantage of making a book or a course into one amorphous blob. 7 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5380 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 4 of 16 07 October 2012 at 4:52am | IP Logged | ||
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But tommus, if I know the way, and I take you along, and every time something interesting or new pops up, I
stop to explain how it works, you'll be continuously entertained and you won't even think about the fact that you are on your way somewhere. When it gets dark, we stop, and we start again the next day. It's not impossible that small lessons or chapters are better for the learner. But I doubt they are better for the teacher: they force you to present the information in unnatural ways, and if the teacher were free to introduce things more logically, I'm sure there is way this can benefit the learner. Think about it -- lessons always start with some kind of dialogue you can't possibly understand until you read further and come back. Dialogues should really be a conclusion, not a starting point. I should explain all you need to understand first, and then I can show you a dialogue although at this point, it may not even be necessary anymore. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
 emk Diglot Moderator United States Joined 5531 days ago 2615 posts - 8806 votes Speaks: English*, FrenchB2 Studies: Spanish, Ancient Egyptian Personal Language Map | Message 5 of 16 07 October 2012 at 6:24am | IP Logged | ||
I actually rather like the way Assimil does it, with small lessons that you can easily finish in a day. That gives a you rhythm: It's a new day, so you've got one lesson to do, and you don't have to think about it. It's a nice, concrete goal. When I'm starting a language, I don't want to look ahead, I don't want to plan, I don't want to schedule. I just want to get into a groove and make progress on autopilot. 8 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| pfn123 Senior Member Australia Joined 5082 days ago 171 posts - 291 votes Speaks: English* | Message 6 of 16 07 October 2012 at 9:54am | IP Logged | ||
Sounds like you're looking for the programmatic method. In this method, information is introduced in 'frames'. Each frames teaches a single point, fact, or whatever. It is then usually tested and built upon. So you really learn bit-by-bit, fact-by-fact. FSI have courses in this method. I can't think of any commercially available language courses that are programmatic (except FSI reprints). A good example of the programmatic method commercially available is the book 'Bobby Fischer Teaches Chess' (Here). So yeah, sounds like this method might be for you. You could make a DIY programmatic course -- an Assimil book, a pair of scissors, and a mad-professor's laugh, lol... but seriously, DON'T cut up Assimil books! :P Edited by pfn123 on 07 October 2012 at 9:58am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| tommus Senior Member CanadaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5865 days ago 979 posts - 1688 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Dutch, French, Esperanto, German, Spanish | Message 7 of 16 07 October 2012 at 3:52pm | IP Logged | ||
If the teacher is using existing books, then maybe it is somewhat restricting to be working with chapters that the teacher feels are not quite logically divided. But you seem to be alluding to new books. In that case, you (the author) can organise them as logically as you can. You can put the dialogue at the end of the chapter. Or base the dialogue on the preceding chapter. But I really think that challenging and extensive material (which any language course will be) should be broken up into consumable chunks. The learner needs to see organisation, structure, modules, and bite-sized chunks. The learner needs the satisfaction of making measurable progress by completing identifiable chunks. Notice how popular language logs and spreadsheets are to record progress and provide motivation. Most loggers wouldn't want to say: Day XXX: Did pages 124-127. Learned some things about irregular verbs. And if a teacher is using one of these amorphous books, then: "Homework for next class is page 23 up to half way through page 29. The focus will be on part of the future tense." As well, the teacher may miss or skip parts, and it will be difficult to keep track of what has been covered and what has been missed. I really think our minds are geared to manageable chunks. Language learners who are at intermediate levels find it very difficult to see that they are making progress. They start to keep track of how many books they have read, how many hours they have studied, how many courses they have completed, or what formal test levels they have achieved. I think it is similar for day to day study. You get satisfaction and a sense of achievement by completing chapters of a book or lessons of a course. The focus of the teacher has to be on the learning and continued motivation of the learner. So I think you are free to organise that material in any logical order or chunks you wish, but please keep them in chunks. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Eternica Triglot Newbie United States Joined 5071 days ago 24 posts - 74 votes Speaks: Cantonese, English*, French Studies: Hungarian, Spanish | Message 8 of 16 07 October 2012 at 6:13pm | IP Logged | ||
Good. There's now a clear name to this method, though Google doesn't really yield many results. However, why do you (or anyone) think that there aren't any commercially available programmatic courses? Without going into detail, I personally believe this is the best way to teach a language (to beginners at least). Of course, you can still put these into lessons and chapters. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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