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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 5057 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes  Speaks: Russian* | Message 17 of 28 07 February 2013 at 7:34pm | IP Logged | |||||
In Ukrainian and Belorussian it does, in Bulgarian it is шт, in Russian щ is the soft ш (close to the Polish soft s). The question about Russian щ has been discussed on the forum many times. Edited by Марк on 07 February 2013 at 7:34pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| geoffw Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 4689 days ago 1134 posts - 1865 votes Speaks: English*, German, Yiddish Studies: Modern Hebrew, French, Dutch, Italian, Russian | Message 18 of 28 07 February 2013 at 7:53pm | IP Logged | |||||
Aha! So my textbooks HAVE been lying to me! I've "learned" from several different sources that it's actually truly *pronounced* "shch" (not just transliterated), and I've never been able to hear it in actual Russian recordings. I always figured I didn't have an ear for it. @Mapk: yes, the forums are indeed cyclical, but the question was new to me, so thanks for answering! Trying to get back to the topic of the OP, now we've gone over numerous types of spelling difficulties that various languages offer up: irregularities, complicated rules, archaic systems, spelling reforms, etc. Do we have any reason to believe that the way children acquire and learn correct spelling is different in these different cases? Does English pedagogy need to focus more on memorization, while German pedagogy needs to focus more on learning rules? Or can one learn to master English spelling just as well with focus on the different spelling systems that coexist in the language? Can German spelling rules be internalized efficiently by memorization of individual words? What's the best approach for learning to spell Russian correctly? How do these different kinds of difficulties affect people with dyslexia? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 5057 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes Speaks: Russian* | Message 19 of 28 08 February 2013 at 6:57am | IP Logged | |||||
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The best way to learn spelling is to read a lot, probably.
3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| beano Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4623 days ago 1049 posts - 2152 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Russian, Serbian, Hungarian | Message 20 of 28 08 February 2013 at 9:36am | IP Logged | |||||
And also to work on the weaknesses you have. My spelling was ropey in my early teens but I did something about it. I appreciate that some people do have genuine learning difficulties but I think others play the dyslexia card to avoid working harder. Edited by beano on 08 February 2013 at 9:37am 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Medulin Tetraglot Senior Member Croatia Joined 4669 days ago 1199 posts - 2192 votes Speaks: Croatian*, English, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Norwegian, Hindi, Nepali | Message 21 of 28 08 February 2013 at 10:40pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Cyrillic is great for Serbian, but not that great for Russian.
Unstressed O is read as /a/ in Russian, but that's not indicated in Russian spelling. In Italian, the vowel quality is not predictable from spelling. Standard Italian has two E phonemes (pèsca vs pésca), and two O phonemes (còrso vs córso), yet you can't know it from the spelling, in 99% of cases. Even when you can know it from the spelling...so many Italians spell it in the wrong way: *perchè, *ventitrè instead of correct perché, ventitré. I've seen more slovenly Italian, incorrectly spelled by native speakers Italian (perchè and perche' instead of perché, un pò instead of un po' etc), than incorrect English misspelled by native speakers of English. Edited by Medulin on 08 February 2013 at 10:43pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| vonPeterhof Tetraglot Senior Member Russian FederationRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4773 days ago 715 posts - 1527 votes Speaks: Russian*, EnglishC2, Japanese, German Studies: Kazakh, Korean, Norwegian, Turkish | Message 22 of 28 08 February 2013 at 11:10pm | IP Logged | |||||
This isn't an issue of the Cyrillic script though, just an issue of Russian phonology and its representation in Russian spelling. After all, Belarusian is also written in Cyrillic and has the same phonological feature, but its spelling reflects it - compare Russian коза to Belarusian каза. Both systems have advantages and disadvantages - in Russian the spelling is not evident from the pronunciation, but if you see the Belarusian word written down before you've heard it used it isn't obvious if its plural should be козы or казы. However, the script is still the same. The Latin alphabet accommodates both etymological and phonemic orthographies; there's no reason why Cyrillic shouldn't be able to do the same. Edited by vonPeterhof on 08 February 2013 at 11:22pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| shk00design Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 4445 days ago 747 posts - 1123 votes Speaks: Cantonese*, English, Mandarin Studies: French | Message 23 of 28 09 February 2013 at 4:59am | IP Logged | |||||
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English is 1 language that isn't always written the way it is pronounced. And there are
differences in pronunciation between the British & American way. Words like "privacy" the British pronounced it with a short i (or like e as in previous) while the Americans use a long i (like pie). And then there are difficult to remember words like "diarrhea" with a silent h in the middle. Some people may be typing it incorrectly as "diaria" or "diarea". At least now most computer programs have automatic spell checking. When a word is misspelled, you see a red underline so you know right away it is wrong. Does make a person lazy but at the same time makes life a lot simpler. There is still the problem of words that sound the same but written differently like "pair" & "pear" or "principal" & "principle". Unless you know the context of what you're writing, the spell won't pick it up. And common typos like "would" and "world". The difference is the letter u & r. These are both correctly spelled but with different meanings. ----------------- At least English is a language you can do spell check and grammar check to a certain extent. You'll still need to proofread your edited copy to make sure there is no mistake. Anybody into Chinese Mandarin it is impossible to spell or grammar check since sentences are written with no breaks between characters that form complete words such as: "I have a dollar" would be written as: "我有一塊錢" instead of: "我 有 一塊 錢". Also there are many 1 character words that sound the same it is impossible to incorporate any sort of spell check in a computer software. Proofreading after inputting all your characters is a must. Someone sent a letter with his Christmas greeting card in Chinese. He used to hand- write all his letters but recently learned to use Pinyin phonetics for computer input. And he made common mistakes. First example: "今年過的好" the character 的 should be 得 (both input into the computer as "de" using Pinyin). The 的 is used as possessive like "my house" or "我的房子". Another example was a character entered under a photo: 友. He meant to input 右 for right (on the right side of the photo) instead of 友 for friend. Both Chinese characters have the same Pinyin "you" and look similar as well. These are examples of typos in Chinese. Without proofreading at least once it would be impossible to pick out these mistakes. Edited by shk00design on 09 February 2013 at 5:10am 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| shk00design Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 4445 days ago 747 posts - 1123 votes Speaks: Cantonese*, English, Mandarin Studies: French | Message 24 of 28 09 February 2013 at 7:09pm | IP Logged | |||||
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There was 1 word I came across recently. While looking over a book in the business
section of a book store, the word: "bestselling" came up. It was in a book written by Donald Trump, the billionaire. He was using it in the context of a "bestselling book". I typed the word into MS-Word with no spelling mistakes. And then I tried to transfer the same word into a web-design software and did a spell check. Apparently the word isn't in that dictionary. If I entered the word as: "best-selling" with a hyphen "-" in the middle, the spell check on the web-design software did not pick it up as an error. I know for a fact the German language is full of compound words. In English you have far fewer. Sometimes you come to a word like "life-savings" for the money you saved in the bank you are not sure whether it is a compound word with or without a hyphen "-". 1 person has voted this message useful |
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