|
 |
Mastering prepositions | ||
Tags: Grammar | ||
Share with:
| ||
 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| eimerhenkel Diglot Newbie New Zealand Joined 4397 days ago 10 posts - 19 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Latin, Hungarian, Italian, Japanese | Message 9 of 23 14 February 2013 at 4:02am | IP Logged | |||||
How is this relevant? I doubt any native English speaker would have the arrogance to assume there are no non-native English speakers living on his street. Foreigners are here, there and everywhere. 5 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 5057 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes  Speaks: Russian* | Message 10 of 23 14 February 2013 at 8:14am | IP Logged | |||||
"in the car" is в машине. The only situation when it is translated as “на машине» is ехать на машине. The verb ехать (ездить) на + prep. means “to ride”. In English you say “to ride a horse”, but in Russian you say “to ride on a horse” which is rather logical. The verb “to go” does not exist in Russian, instead Russians use the verbs “to walk” and “to ride”. That's why ехать на машине. Ехать в can be used when it does not refer to a mean of movement. Ехать в клетке. There are many other cases where it's difficult to explain why в or на is used (в, на Украине). The difference in case is easy. The acc. is used with directions, while the prepositional with locations. The exception is certain time expressions (в день, в час etc.). But in general prepositions must be learnt by heart and it's always difficult. The verb government is always difficult too. 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| beano Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4623 days ago 1049 posts - 2152 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Russian, Serbian, Hungarian | Message 11 of 23 14 February 2013 at 9:24am | IP Logged | |||||
It was a genuine question. To the best of my knwledge, I have never heard someone from a non-English speaking country speak English without at least occasional prepositional slips. They may speak the language incredibly well as a whole, but at some point their choice of a tiny little word will jar. My observations were in no way intended as a criticism. I wonder how wartime spies did it, going behind enemy lines and blending in with the population. An odd choice of preposition or lack of a certain vocabulary item would cause peoples' ears to prick up. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 5057 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes Speaks: Russian* | Message 12 of 23 14 February 2013 at 9:31am | IP Logged | |||||
They could pretend being foreigners from a non-hostile country. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Majka Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic kofoholici.wordpress Joined 4658 days ago 307 posts - 755 votes Speaks: Czech*, German, English Studies: French Studies: Russian | Message 13 of 23 14 February 2013 at 9:51am | IP Logged | |||||
|
I wouldn't exclude the possibility of non-natives to get the prepositions right on the native level.
The problem is that you cannot really distinguish people who speak at the native level from natives, unless they tell you. As already mentioned, some natives aren't 100% right when using prepositions, some usage is ambivalent or local. With lot of input and living (and/or working) in the target language, we could get there. The problem is that this level needs to be maintained. Switch into another language for a longer time (a year or two) and you'll start to think in this "other" language and loose the feel for the previous one. Even switching for a month gets you slightly rusty - so that I can feel that the language takes little more effort for a day or so. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Cavesa Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 5010 days ago 3277 posts - 6779 votes Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, German, Italian | Message 14 of 23 14 February 2013 at 10:48am | IP Logged | |||||
|
I don't think mastering means 100% right at all the times. We all make occasional mistakes even in our native languages. Mastering, in my opinion, means that you do make such a mistake once in a longer amount of time, usually when you are tired, sleepy, drunk, excited, angry or just really, really unfocused. So, if someone is waiting for people to make a mistake, sooner or later everyone will make it (including most natives). Another sign of mastery could be the ability to ind your own mistake, more likely in a writen text.
2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5431 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 15 of 23 14 February 2013 at 2:02pm | IP Logged | |||||
|
Native speakers may exhibit a range of variation in the use of certain aspects of their language. (For example, just recently, a person here at HTLAL pointed out to me that "take exception with" should be "take exception to." In reality, both forms co-exist.)
At the same time, certain mistakes by foreigners can be jarring because native speakers never make that mistake. Just yesterday I heard a French-speaker say "You have to believe on yourself," Everybody understood him perfectly but no native speaker of English would say this. The major cause of all this is of course the interference from the first language. We see a residual effect in pronunciation and in subtle things like use of prepositions. We see exactly the same sort of thing in French where foreigners at the highest levels of proficiency still have problems with grammatical gender, prepositions and the subjunctive mood. The only solution is massive exposure, interaction with natives and, very importantly, explicit correction by a native tutor. For those interested in how Luca Lamporello learned American English, listen to his video where he talks about his American tutor and American friends. Edited by s_allard on 16 February 2013 at 1:47am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Fuenf_Katzen Diglot Senior Member United States notjustajd.wordpress Joined 4370 days ago 337 posts - 476 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Polish, Ukrainian, Afrikaans | Message 16 of 23 16 February 2013 at 1:11am | IP Logged | |||||
|
I have no doubt that it's possible, but it would require a great amount of focused, concentrated effort that most people don't need or even want to put in, especially in English, where natives will generally understand what is meant (I won't assume what is acceptable in other languages). For my German prepositions, it's been a struggle, and I don't know that it will be "good enough" for me for a long time.
1 person has voted this message useful |
|  | 
Printable version
|
| Copyright 2024 FX Micheloud - All rights reserved No part of this website may be copied by any means without my written authorization. |
