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Mastering prepositions | ||
Tags: Grammar | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 5057 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes  Speaks: Russian* | Message 17 of 23 16 February 2013 at 8:07am | IP Logged | |||||
Why do you think so? Edited by Марк on 16 February 2013 at 9:54am 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6598 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 18 of 23 16 February 2013 at 3:17pm | IP Logged | |||||
You're basically asking whether it's possible to achieve a native-like level. Yes, it's possible. Does it sound 'jarring' when a native speaker is about to use one word, then changes his mind already after pronouncing the preposition (which is the wrong one for the new sentence)? It's largely about the listener's assumptions and expectations, not about the speaker's level. Although actually, what bothers me more is that you want to hear about non-natives other people know in real life while there are many highly fluent English speakers right here at this forum. Are we not legitimate because of the risk that we're actually native speakers selling Rosetta Stone? :) Wow, I sounded more grumpy than I really am :) As I said, just don't forget that you're also speaking to countless non-natives here. Edited by Serpent on 16 February 2013 at 3:18pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Julie Heptaglot Senior Member PolandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6904 days ago 1251 posts - 1733 votes 5 sounds Speaks: Polish*, EnglishB2, GermanC2, SpanishB2, Dutch, Swedish, French | Message 19 of 23 16 February 2013 at 5:06pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Serpent, I think you're a bit overreacting. The main question in the thread wasn't adressed to English native speakers only. Actually, it wasn't even limited to English in the first place.
I never felt like a specimen in a zoo, writing here in English, surrounded by native English speakers. There are many non-native speakers here after all. Furthermore, I'd be a hypocrite: when I talk with foreigners in Polish or read what they write in my native language I do analyze it from time to time. I can't help it and I don't mind the others paying attention to my mistakes, especially if they're kind enough to provide me with some language feedback which will always be welcome and appreciated :). Oh, and it doesn't bother me that someone wants to hear about real-life non-natives while they're so many fluent non-native speakers of English here: here we communicate in writing mostly whereas it's interesting to think of the use of prepositions in speaking as well. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 7157 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 20 of 23 16 February 2013 at 5:53pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Like Serpent I've sometimes come out feeling as some kind of specimen at a zoo. On the other hand, I've come to bristle much less about the natives' reactions because I've gathered that it stems from the myth that their respective native language is inordinately difficult if not the most difficult for outsiders to grasp. Nevertheless there is the angle that my ability in expressing myself that would match the expectations of a native speaker should not be greeted by an outsized response since I'm merely applying what I've been shown by a native speaker. Why should I inflict on native speakers something that's ungrammatical yet insist that I'm using their native language and so expect to be understood as if I'd expressed myself grammatically?
I suspect highly that teachers of students learning a second language and even some linguistically accomplished native speakers think a bit about outsiders who master or at least show a very strong grasp of some feature in their native language that's demonstratably troublesome for outsiders to learn to the point of being equal to a native in use. There being studies done on L2 acquisition shows that it's a respectable subdomain or field of inquiry in applied linguistics and indirectly supports the usually strong feelings engendered in native speakers upon encountering outsiders who use the language just as well as a native speaker as stemming from that myth about difficulty mentioned earlier. For example, have Russians wondered among themselves if they've met adult learners who can pronounce things indistinguishably from a native speaker after a certain time? (see Phonetic Perception and Pronunciation Difficulties of Russian Language (From a Canadian perspective)) How about Estonians who likely wonder among themselves if they've met adult learners whose use of the cases could pass off for a native? (even though Estonians don't always agree on which endings are grammatical - see Vihelik's comment about declining lumi “snow”) 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 5057 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes Speaks: Russian* | Message 21 of 23 17 February 2013 at 8:17am | IP Logged | |||||
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Native speakers feel their language to be the easiest.
I don't understand what Serpent meant. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Carlucio Triglot Groupie BrazilRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4859 days ago 70 posts - 113 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, EnglishC1, Spanish Studies: Mandarin | Message 22 of 23 18 February 2013 at 12:44am | IP Logged | |||||
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Prepositions are the hardest thing in English and my most common mistake, the logic of English prepositions, in many cases, is completely different of Portuguese's logic.
1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Earle Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6316 days ago 276 posts - 276 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Norwegian, Spanish | Message 23 of 23 18 February 2013 at 3:23am | IP Logged | |||||
1 person has voted this message useful |
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