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Over Correctness? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
 emk Diglot Moderator United States Joined 5533 days ago 2615 posts - 8806 votes  Speaks: English*, FrenchB2 Studies: Spanish, Ancient Egyptian Personal Language Map | Message 9 of 15 17 February 2013 at 11:40pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
There are definitely some warning signs to watch out for: - Societies that have really complicated love-hate relationships with their local dialects. - Societies with strong social classes that condemn people for trying to move between classes. - Oppressed groups that use a specific dialect to demonstrate their allegiance to the group. If you're a non-native speaker, tread carefully in these situations. There's an example of this in Rush Hour, where Jackie Chan starts imitating Chris Tucker's vernacular in a bar. If you're an American, you cringe, because you know that Chan is behaving in a wildly inappropriate fashion. And of course the scene ends with a fight. On the other hand, if you live enough of your life through your second language, you eventually need to find your own voice. You can't spend years interacting with your friends and colleagues and still insist on speaking like a textbook, unless that's your authentic voice. If you're a casual and slangy person, you eventually need to give in, make some mistakes, and pick up the ambient speech patterns of your social circle. Of course, you may occasionally get laughed at. But really, providing amusement to native speakers is part of the fun of learning a new language. :-) 8 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| tanya b Senior Member United States Joined 4779 days ago 159 posts - 518 votes Speaks: Russian | Message 10 of 15 18 February 2013 at 3:48am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Learning from a textbook you always run the risk of sounding pretentious.
Thankfully the show "Shahs of Sunset" informs me that the Farsi word for "yeah" is "areh", which is not in my dictionary. Because English is the big kid on the block, no one cares if a foreigner mangles it with slang. In other languages, however, some might feel that foreigners are making a mockery of their language, which some take pride in. There is a book called "Russian Tolstoy Never Used", which introduces the foreigner to some very vulgar Russian slang. If this book were to fall into the hands of a knucklehead visiting Russia, there's no telling what troubles could befall him. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| ilcommunication Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6693 days ago 115 posts - 162 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Russian, Portuguese, Mandarin | Message 11 of 15 18 February 2013 at 11:12pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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In my opinion, if a particular vernacular comes to you and starts to make sense, don't be afraid to start using it yourself, unless you have reasons to not do so. The thing is it's not something you can guess at or try to fake, you can only really get it from being around that accent, from hearing it and responding to it all the time. Textbook-talk is all well and good but after awhile it will probably become boring and perhaps even limiting. However either extreme can have its pitfalls....
When I was practicing Hind with some friends, I would instinctively use "ji" in all my sentences and address them as "aap" (similar to the French "vous" or Spanish "usted"), very formal and deferential speech, because I used to only speak Hindi with people older than me and/or my teachers. Well, they cracked up and insisted that I stop being so formal because it sounded utterly absurd to them. On the other side of the spectrum, I've met one or two non-native English speakers who were apparently taught really outdated slang by their teachers back home (we're talking 1970's stuff, phrases no one's heard since disco went out of style)...I appreciated the effort but let's just say I got a good laugh out of it. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Bao Diglot Senior Member Germany tinyurl.com/pe4kqe5 Joined 5767 days ago 2256 posts - 4046 votes Speaks: German*, English Studies: French, Spanish, Japanese, Mandarin | Message 12 of 15 22 February 2013 at 10:01pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
I actually avoided giving specific examples or guidelines when I wrote my post, because when I tried to formulate them I arrived back at 'it depends on the constellation in question whether something is considered offensive, tolerable or amusing'. Adjusting your speech tempo to the other person's usually isn't amiss, unless of course they're too fast for you. Everything else depends on the situation. It's surely possible to be accepted by a group who identify strongly with their dialect and (sub)culture and are suspicious of outsiders. But it doesn't happen all of a sudden, it's hard work. I personally would be most cautious with gender related norms and speech patterns/styles used by people identifying as part of a low prestige group. For example, I think adult learners of German should not try to assimilate Kiezdeutsch unless they're really sure of what they're doing. Edited by Bao on 22 February 2013 at 10:04pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Tedmac278 Triglot Newbie United States Joined 4301 days ago 23 posts - 38 votes Speaks: English*, German, Spanish Studies: Estonian | Message 13 of 15 23 February 2013 at 12:41am | IP Logged | ||||||||
vonPeterhof, if you don't mind me asking, where did you study in Atlanta? I'm just curious since I'm an Atlanta native. I'd say in American English wanna's, dya's, gonna's, etc are all fair game for foreigners. One's speech would sound very stiff if you don't use them here. That being said, I only use ya'll in specific situations or with certain people since it's one of the more distinguishing constructions in southern dialect. (if you can even call it a dialect. regionalism perhaps) I'm going to Denver tomorrow and would never use it with the people I know out there. There's nothing wrong with it, it just sounds "cute" in other parts of the country. There is a co worker of mine who is from Holland who married a southerner and has lived in the deep south for 20+ years. He has a hint of a dutch accent but with an otherwise flawless southern accent. It's fun to listen too and always makes me smile inwardly. But it's 100% cool with me! IMHO, I think Americans as a culture like it better when foreigners try to mimick all of our speech habits. (Except the vulgar stuff) My biggest experience with picking up foreign lingo has been in Cordoba, Argentina. For those who don't know, it's definitely a MARKED accent! Luckily for me, my best friends down there are well educated and have been able to keep my lingo away from the really bad stuff. And "less educated" ways of speaking. For example instead of "perro" some people say "perllo" pronounced with the Argentinian "zh" for "ll". Occasionally I'll say something wrong like that on purpose and just wink at them. I think it's fun to play with the language in that way as long as everyone involved is on the same page. Anyway, everyone I meet down there genuinely likes that I've picked up an Argentinian accent. Especially when I incorporate some of their slang like, "Ahhhh, la flauta!", "Que Zarpado!", or instead of "de nada" saying "nooo, por favor!" and the infamous "Boludo!" (used cautiously!) Since returning and speaking with Spanish speakers of other countries, it doesn't really bother anyone (nor me) that I've picked up a very regional type of Spanish. If anything, it's a great conversation starter and they're even more understanding when I tell them the history I have with my Argentinian family. German on the other hand... Hochdeutsch bitte! Of course I need to spend more time there before I really pass judgement. Edited by Tedmac278 on 23 February 2013 at 12:54am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| vonPeterhof Tetraglot Senior Member Russian FederationRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4773 days ago 715 posts - 1527 votes Speaks: Russian*, EnglishC2, Japanese, German Studies: Kazakh, Korean, Norwegian, Turkish | Message 14 of 15 23 February 2013 at 6:46am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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| Fuenf_Katzen Diglot Senior Member United States notjustajd.wordpress Joined 4370 days ago 337 posts - 476 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Polish, Ukrainian, Afrikaans | Message 15 of 15 24 February 2013 at 3:07pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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For me this happens mostly with contractions. I really don't use that many colloquialisms in English (or the d'ya/wanna/gonna etc.), so I haven't made it a point to use any in German either. I don't mind using contractions, especially in informal situations, but for some reason I never think to use them in German.
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