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Why Women Talk More - Language Protein | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Presidio Triglot Newbie United States Joined 4582 days ago 39 posts - 150 votes  Speaks: English*, Russian, German Studies: Spanish, Arabic (Gulf) | Message 1 of 11 20 February 2013 at 9:37pm | IP Logged | ||
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http://www.scienceworldreport.com/articles/5073/20130220/why -women-talk-more-men-language-protein.htm WHY WOMEN TALK MORE THAN MEN: LANGUAGE PROTEIN UNCOVERED You know all the times that men complain about women talking too much? Apparently there's a biological explanation for the reason why women are chattier than men. Scientists have discovered that women possess higher levels of a "language protein" in their brains, which could explain why females are so talkative. Previous research has shown that women talk almost three times as much as men. In fact, an average woman notches up 20,000 words in a day, which is about 13,000 more than the average man. In addition, women generally speak more quickly and devote more brainpower to speaking. Yet before now, researchers haven't been able to biologically explain why this is the case. Now, they can. New findings conducted by researchers at the University of Maryland School of Medicine and published in The Journal of Neuroscience show that a certain protein may be the culprit. In 2001, a gene called FOXP2 appeared to be essential for the production of speech. In order to test this protein, the team, led by J. Michael Bowers and Margaret McCarthy, looked at young rat pups. These animals emit cries in the ultrasonic range when separated from their mothers. The team recorded the cries over five minutes in groups of 4-day-old male and female rats that had been separated from their mothers. They found that male pups had up to twice as much of the protein FOXP2 in regions of the brain known to be involved in vocalization--perhaps an unsurprising finding since researchers noted that males made twice as many cries as females. Next, the researchers wanted to test their findings in humans. They conducted a small study on human children aged four to five years who had died in accidents less than 24 hours previously. They then analyzed the amount of FOXP2 protein in the brains of these children. In the end, the researchers found 30 percent more FOXP2 protein in the brains of the girls. The research shows that the protein, FOXP2, is a key molecule for communication in mammals. In fact, it could allow researchers to better understand other species that may or may not possess the protein, such as Neanderthals. With this new biological link, scientists could potentially trace back the evolutionary origin of speech. That said, the research also gives a reason for why women tend to be better at small talk. END OF ARTICLE -- This is not a joke and I am not posting this as a slight or a sexist comment. This was a study done by the University of Maryland School of Medicine and published in the Journal of Neuroscience. I am looking at this only from the perspective of foreign language acquisition and maintenance, nothing more. It would appear that - taken at face value - this would give women an advantage in maintaining their verbal skills in a foreign language, which in turn helps keep auditory skills up to speed. Language Acquisition 101: The more you use a language, the more comfortable you become with it. The more your mouth makes these strange movements and utters these unfamiliar sounds, the more they become part of you. And listening to yourself speak and gradually increase your tempo helps your ears become more in tune to hearing and comprehending the language, as well. This study of course doesn't apply equally to all women. I met my wife at language school and she and I worked as Russian interpreters for the U.S. military in Europe. Although she is an outstanding linguist, she is one of the quietest people I have ever met. Of course there is the other side of the coin... My father once said to me: "I haven't spoken to your mother in three years....I don't want to interrupt her." 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Tsopivo Diglot Senior Member Canada Joined 4472 days ago 258 posts - 411 votes Speaks: French*, English Studies: Esperanto | Message 2 of 11 21 February 2013 at 12:24am | IP Logged | ||
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If you were to dissect my body and the body of an athlete, you would find that the athlete has more muscle than I do. But does he practice physical activities more because he has more muscle or does he have more muscle because he practices physical activities? I would bet on the 2nd explanation, so I would not jump to conclusions too fast concerning this study.
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| Presidio Triglot Newbie United States Joined 4582 days ago 39 posts - 150 votes Speaks: English*, Russian, German Studies: Spanish, Arabic (Gulf) | Message 3 of 11 21 February 2013 at 4:42am | IP Logged | ||
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Your analogy falls woefully short.
FROM THE ARTICLE: "They conducted a small study on human children aged four to five years who had died in accidents less than 24 hours previously. They then analyzed the amount of FOXP2 protein in the brains of these children. In the end, the researchers found 30 percent more FOXP2 protein in the brains of the girls." -- The only way your comparison could have any validity would be if the female children who died had been intentionally performing activities for the sole purpose of developing more of the FOXP2 protein. And then there is this: FROM TNE ARTICLE "Previous research has shown that women talk almost three times as much as men. In fact, an average woman notches up 20,000 words in a day, which is about 13,000 more than the average man. In addition, women generally speak more quickly and devote more brainpower to speaking." -- Again, for your comment to hold validity, women would need to be speaking 13,000 more words per day INTENTIONALLY with the specific purpose of developing those verbal skills. Once more, my point is simply that this higher amount of ongoing verbal activity, almost two-thirds more words spoken per day than a man, could possibly be used to help further the mastery of a foreign language if so desired. . Edited by Presidio on 21 February 2013 at 4:51am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Darklight1216 Diglot Senior Member United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5101 days ago 411 posts - 639 votes Speaks: English*, French Studies: German | Message 4 of 11 21 February 2013 at 9:41am | IP Logged | ||
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I think it would be more useful if we knew whether or not the children's words had been counted before they died, a la the rats, or if they merely assumed that because women supposedly speak more that the little girls had been chattier than the boys when they were still alive.
I also have to wonder just how small this "small study" was. If only a handful of children whose speech habits are unknown were studied, then the argument is not very convincing in my humble opinion. Furthermore, the information about their ages leaves something to be desired. To say there were "children aged four to five" doesn't tell us if, for instance all the boys or both or even the only boy (the article doesn't give us the number of children, as I said) was four years old and the female children (same lack of information) were five. The girls might have had more of the protein simply because they had been alive longer or something. Even if this is all true and, as you might have guessed, I am a bit skeptical; talkative women would probably only have an advantage if they use their extra words for their target language. Here's another study. http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=3348076&page=1 According to a study released today, men talk just as much as women — on average 16,000 words in a day. Using digital voice recorders over an eight-year period, researchers at the University of Arizona studied how many words hundreds of American and Mexican college students spoke over several days. The students carried the voice-activated recorders for almost all of their waking hours, on average about 17 hours a day. The study found that women spoke 16,215 words a day, while men spoke 15,669. Although women speak slightly more words than men, statistically, the difference is insignificant, according to Matthias R. Mehl, a psychology professor at the University of Arizona and the study's lead author. All in all, I don't think any of it is very significant. How many words the average woman or man speaks doesn't really dictate how often I practice my French. Edited by Darklight1216 on 21 February 2013 at 9:51am 7 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Presidio Triglot Newbie United States Joined 4582 days ago 39 posts - 150 votes Speaks: English*, Russian, German Studies: Spanish, Arabic (Gulf) | Message 5 of 11 21 February 2013 at 4:58pm | IP Logged | ||
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You bring up some very valid points.
I would however ask how you could put so much credence in a study done by a psychology professor at the U. of Arizona done in a solitary environment (a college campus)... ...but readily question the findings of a study performed by multiple researchers at the University of Maryland Medical School whose work was found to have enough credence to be published in the Journal of Neuroscience. Having said that, your link does help shoot down the claim that women do speak almost 13,000 more words per day than men. Thanks for sharing that. It wanted to discuss the truth, not push an agenda and you have definitely helped with that. . Edited by Presidio on 21 February 2013 at 5:01pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6598 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 6 of 11 21 February 2013 at 6:54pm | IP Logged | ||
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I think that for an accurate comparison, it's very important to take the cycle into account. Of course some extremely chatty women are also chatty during the period or PMS, but then they will be even MORE chatty during ovulation, if that's possible at all :D An average woman's chattiness probably depends on her energy levels and mood, which in turn depend on the hormones to some extent.
And I'm afraid most non-language geeks just waste more time if they happen to talk more than their peers, regardless of the gender. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6598 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 7 of 11 21 February 2013 at 6:57pm | IP Logged | ||
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| Tsopivo Diglot Senior Member Canada Joined 4472 days ago 258 posts - 411 votes Speaks: French*, English Studies: Esperanto | Message 8 of 11 21 February 2013 at 8:21pm | IP Logged | ||
And why is that? Why would the fact that it is intentional, for the sole purpose of developing more of the FOXP2 protein, or not make any difference to my point? Edit: Maybe my point was not clear at all so I'll explain more. The research seems to indicate a correlation between A (women talk more) and B (higher level of FOXP2 protein) - on a side-note, I say "seems to indicate" because both A and B are not proven to a certainty by this study as pointed out by Darklight1216. The article and your post indicate that the cause of A (why women talk more) has been found and it is B (higher level of FOXP2 protein). My point is simply that this seems like jumping to conclusions. There are a lot of plausible reasons explaining the correlation between A and B. One is, indeed, that B is the cause of A. Another one is that A is the cause of B. There are also other plausible reasons. So I just gave another example of a correlation : A (frequent physical activity) and B (more muscle). In this case, it is obvious that you can't say : there is a correlation between A and B so B (more muscle) is the cause of A (frequent physical activity). A more plausible explanation is that A (frequent physical activity) is the cause of B (more muscle). Basically, my point is that a correlation between fact 1 and fact 2 does not necessarily means a causation of fact 1 by fact 2. Edited by Tsopivo on 21 February 2013 at 8:43pm 4 persons have voted this message useful |
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