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Thread for stupid questions about Danish | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| janababe Triglot Senior Member Sweden Joined 5516 days ago 102 posts - 115 votes  Speaks: Swedish*, English, German | Message 9 of 22 21 October 2009 at 9:20pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Oh Danish don't get me started on that ;)
A Dane was visiting my place of work recently, but everyone avoided him. No, not because he smelled but because nobody could understand him. Poor guy. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6705 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 10 of 22 21 October 2009 at 11:37pm | IP Logged | |||||
English 'th' as in "with" (but not the one in "gothic") is exactly the same sound as soft Danish d. I don't see how you can hear this as a soft l 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Rameau Triglot Senior Member Germany Joined 6109 days ago 149 posts - 258 votes 4 sounds Speaks: English*, GermanC1, Danish Studies: Swedish, French, Icelandic | Message 11 of 22 22 October 2009 at 1:27am | IP Logged | |||||
I wouldn't say it's exactly the same sound...In the English sound, the tip of the tongue sticks out slightly between both sets of teeth, and presses lightly against the upper set. In the Danish sound (assuming I'm producing it correctly), it doesn't stick out, and instead presses lightly against the back of the lower teeth. As for it seemingly like an L at first to non-native speakers...I suppose it sort of feels like a "reverse L" as well--that is to say, like an L with the tongue in almost the opposite position (i.e. the lower half of the mouth rather than the upper). In my own personal case, this renders it somewhat difficult to say d-l combinations (as in "tidlig") without a small schwa sound in the middle thanks to the whip-like motion the tongue has to make to move between these two sounds. 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6705 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 12 of 22 22 October 2009 at 1:54am | IP Logged | |||||
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Well, now we ought to ask the professional phoneticists, but in my experience "with" ends in a sound where the tongue stays inside the mouth. Maybe it moves marginally further outwards in a word like "whither", but if it passes the teeth I would think we are talking about the sound in "width", and that's another phoneme.
The Danish soft 'd' is not produced in exactly the same position every time, but generally it is formed with the tongue coming from above towards the lower front teeth - but not necessarily touching them. The English sounds in "with" and "gather" or "whither" are also sslightly different, but within the same phoneme. Maybe it is too much to say that the Danish soft d is exactly the same as English 'th' (in the soft version), but at least there is a considerable overlap. 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| oz-hestekræfte Senior Member Australia Joined 5680 days ago 103 posts - 117 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Danish | Message 13 of 22 22 October 2009 at 11:25am | IP Logged | |||||
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:'( I just wrote a huge reply and lost it all when I clicked post reply. oh well, here i go again.
Iversen, it may be hard for you to believe, but the soft D truly does sound like an L to us beginners. My ear has grown acustomed to the soft D and I am now better at distinguishing it. One problem word I had was "ved" which believe it or not sounded a lot like "vil"... That is, at least at native speeds in sentences. Especially as the are both used in the same constructions: "Det ved jeg ikke" "Det vil jeg ikke". Until you learn to pronounce the soft D and realise how the sound is properly made, you will have trouble believeing it is the same sound as the one in "with" In loud clear singing I notice the soft D sounds much closer to its English equivilant. Interesting note: My dad is a native speaker of Danish, it was his first language. Dad and his parents migrated to Australia when he was 2 years old, but growing up Dad always spoke Danish at home. Suffice to say that although he is rusty now, he was very proficient in the language, although never learnt to read or write it. Recently I've been doing some Danish study with Dad and it's funny because I can spell Danish better than he can. Although my dad pronounces the soft D perfectly he still confuses it with a L in writing. EG he once confused "mal" The imperative of male (eng: paint) with mad (eng: food) Of course he pronounces them both correctly, he never mixes it up in speech. My advice is: Learn to correctly pronounce the soft D and understand how the sound is made. Listen lots! 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Amoore Senior Member Denmark Joined 5772 days ago 177 posts - 218 votes Speaks: Danish* | Message 14 of 22 22 October 2009 at 11:39am | IP Logged | |||||
I think this is a very good observation. I am a native speaker and I must agree with you to some extend. Edited by Amoore on 22 October 2009 at 11:42am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Rikyu-san Diglot Senior Member Denmark Joined 5530 days ago 213 posts - 413 votes Speaks: Danish*, English Studies: German, French | Message 15 of 22 22 October 2009 at 11:50am | IP Logged | |||||
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The best way I can describe how the soft "d" is pronounced is to give the following instructions (Danish native speakers - please read it to the end):
* first of all, begin with an English sounding "the". Notice where the tongue hits the upper teeth, and very importantly, where the tongue ends when sounding the "e" sound in the. * now, the soft Danish d sounds like the "th" in "the" * now, imagine you want to say "the" but don't pronounce the vowel sound. This means that you say "th..." as if you are stopping yourself (which you, of course, are). This will give you an idea. * however, to perfect your pronounciation, try to say the "th" sound but placing the tongue in the same spot where it ends on the "e" in the. The tongue ends about midway, with a gentle touch on the middle part of the lower teeth. Keeping the tongue in this position, try to pronounce the word for white, "hvid" - it sounds like "veeth" with a short ee and the soft th gently placed on the lower teeth as described here. It might seem unnatural to non-native Danish speakers, and it might feel as if your tongue is falling out of your mouth. But just keep it gently inside and practice. I hope this helps. Edited by Rikyu-san on 22 October 2009 at 11:50am 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Xenon Tetraglot Newbie Canada Joined 5634 days ago 14 posts - 17 votes Speaks: Romanian*, English, Italian, French Studies: Russian, German | Message 16 of 22 18 December 2009 at 10:20am | IP Logged | |||||
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Thank you for your comments and clarifications. It helps a lot. Now I can say that it
sounds like a soft d :). But now I can hear to many "d"s..:) FX: Hvad hedder De? First time the (d) in "hvad" sounded like a soft "L" and the (dd) in "hedder" like the regular English "th". Now I can distinguish the former (L) as a "th" but the second d sounds totally different compared with the first one.Do you think is ok or am I drinking to much coffee? :) BTW, Is it ok to pronounce Hvad as [hve] instead of [hvað]? Is there a rule because I heard it pronounced in both ways? Thank you in advance for your help. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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