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If I hear "Spanish is easy" ONE more time | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| outcast Bilingual Heptaglot Senior Member China Joined 4951 days ago 869 posts - 1364 votes  Speaks: Spanish*, English*, German, Italian, French, Portuguese, Mandarin Studies: Korean | Message 89 of 137 22 July 2012 at 9:01pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I've thought about this topic long and hard, and given prior long explanations as to why this perception exists (and there is a fair dose of truth to it), but then I realized how one's own perceptions might have a very positive (or devastating) effect.
Consider French/German vs Spanish/English. There are MANY people that speak English and Spanish, but very poorly in their grammar, conjugations, etc, yet they seem undisturbed by this fact. Then you compare that to what hearsay states about the Germans and the French (especially the French perhaps): don't bother speaking to them in their languages if you can't get everything 95% right (French pronounciation, German cases, etc). That immediately sets up a different perception, which makes the latter group "harder". One that says (subconsciously) "I have to learn French/German really well or I will make a fool of myself", so that you are putting more pressure on yourself, vs "English/Spanish are easy", which makes you relax (and probably learn better!). Why? Perhaps because people's own expectations differ! It's funny that people have the stereotype that the Germans and the French will talk to you in English if you can't prove high competence in their language. I think the analysis of this perception is flawed: the Germans and French only expect you to speak their language with basic correctness. The reason this seems demanding may be rendered clearer by returning to Spanish and English: those two languages are so widely spoken natives expect heavy accents, weird words, and strange sentence patterns. So they may be far more tolerant of VERY POORLY spoken English and Spanish, both of which I have been subjected to. As a result many assume this over-indulgence is the norm, and that the Germans and French are "demanding". Or worse yet: many of those people think they are speaking English or Spanish CORRECTLY merely because people are (out of politeness) going along! edit: I'm having an awful spelling day, so I corrected some very offensive mistakes. Edited by outcast on 23 July 2012 at 1:51am 9 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Random review Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5785 days ago 781 posts - 1310 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Portuguese, Mandarin, Yiddish, German | Message 90 of 137 23 July 2012 at 12:14am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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@ outcast: that is spot on! I never realised it before because I'm the opposite of this
more general pattern: I put more pressure on myself with Spanish than German. The reason is that I learn German because I have always liked the language and I want (one day) to get it right because that is pleasurable. In contrast I started learning Spanish for more practical reasons, I don't really like the language much (though I love Spain and the Spanish and Latin American culture the language helps me access). My Spanish is hardly flawless and yet I have heard British people chattering away fluently in quite awful (even to my ear) Spanish. It is interesting that Romanians and Morrocans (among other nationalities) in Spain seem to learn the language very well. I think that (at least in Spain) this is because they don't get given the linguistic free ride you described above that is given to us guiris. I think a lot of the time we anglophones are let off like that and perhaps what France and Germany have in common is a disinclination to give us this special treatment. What do you think? Edited by Random review on 23 July 2012 at 12:15am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Gala Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 4552 days ago 229 posts - 421 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Italian | Message 91 of 137 23 July 2012 at 5:55am | IP Logged | ||||||||
I echo all of this. I recently decided that I'm no longer going to allow the flow of my speech to be interrupted by hesitating over the trickier choices between ser/estar, preterite/imperfect, subjunctive/indicative, and I'd add present subjunctive/imperfect subjunctive to that list as well. For the sake of fluency, I think I'm just going to have to be content with being correct on these "a substantial fraction" of the time. In writing, I'll continue to try to refine my grasp of them; hopefully that as well as continuing exposure will do the trick someday. Edited by Gala on 23 July 2012 at 5:57am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Jappy58 Bilingual Super Polyglot Senior Member United States Joined 4640 days ago 200 posts - 413 votes Speaks: Spanish*, Guarani*, Arabic (Levantine), Arabic (Egyptian), Arabic (Maghribi), Arabic (Written), French, English, Persian, Quechua, Portuguese Studies: Modern Hebrew | Message 92 of 137 23 July 2012 at 4:16pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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@outcast: Excellent point! :)
It is certainly true that many people perceive Germans and the French as being more critical of non-natives speaking their language, whereas Spanish speakers are seen as more forgiving or even very relaxed. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| frenkeld Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6945 days ago 2042 posts - 2719 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: German | Message 93 of 137 23 July 2012 at 6:34pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Indeed, my point was that one runs into learners who make a large number of rather basic mistakes, even in writing, when they are under no time pressure, because their approach is just too light on grammar. Edited by frenkeld on 23 July 2012 at 6:40pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Medulin Tetraglot Senior Member Croatia Joined 4670 days ago 1199 posts - 2192 votes Speaks: Croatian*, English, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Norwegian, Hindi, Nepali | Message 94 of 137 24 July 2012 at 1:49pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Spanish is easy in the sense...I can speak it although I haven't studied it ;)
I speak Portuguese, and I learned only differences between Brazilian Pt and Argentinian Sp...;) The grammar is almost the same although Spanish has much more irregular verbs (I count verbs as Contar as irregular because you can't guess the diphthong from the infinitive, you have to memorize it has a diphthong), Argentine Spanish pronunciation and intonation is easy if you speak Italian. Overall, it's very easy, and subjunctive a piece of cake if you know Portuguese ;) Speakers of Portuguese would do much better if they followed this approach, For them the regular AB OVO course is extremely boring. The main differences include the gender differences of some nouns, differences between ESTAR and Pt and Es (although they are not so marked between Brazilian Pt and Argentinian Sp, because in Argentina you can say: Buenos Aires es muy lejos de Brasil; and Estoy con miedo just like in Portuguese); then preposition differences (bastar con ir, amenazar con in Sp. vs bastar ir, ameaçar de in Pt; and so on...) Edited by Medulin on 24 July 2012 at 1:55pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| zashi Newbie United States Joined 4570 days ago 8 posts - 9 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish | Message 95 of 137 24 August 2012 at 5:02am | IP Logged | ||||||||
Great interpretation. Bravo. I studied Spanish in school and started to learn French on my own in order to travel around Paris. I did not find it that difficult to learn. It was not difficult to figure out basic Subject Verb order. But both languages have a latin background - so as an English speaker - it shouldn't be too difficult to learn to speak (in the begining). Listening though (in Spanish or French) is another story. :) Edited by zashi on 24 August 2012 at 5:04am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| beano Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4624 days ago 1049 posts - 2152 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Russian, Serbian, Hungarian | Message 96 of 137 24 August 2012 at 10:34pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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@Outcast - I couldn't agree more.
Native English speakers are already well used to hearing their language being spoken by foreigners with thick accents, creative grammar and variable pronunciation. If we can understand what someone is saying then we willingly engage with them. With Spanish also being a major international language with many learners, native speakers will generally be very tolerant of imperfect usage. Having said that, I reckon this stereotype of Germans instantly switching to English when confronted with less-than-perfect German is WAY overexaggerated. For starters, this idea assumes that all Germans are capable of spontaneously producing a high level of English. This may be so in academic circles or among people with experience of international business but it is certainly not true of the population in general. There's also a belief that all German people are somehow anxious to practise their English. Again, anyone who has spent time in Germany away from the tourist hot-spots will confirm that their are plently of people who prefer to speak German in their home country, some even expect it from outsiders. 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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