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| tractor Tetraglot Senior Member Norway Joined 5454 days ago 1349 posts - 2292 votes  Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, Catalan Studies: French, German, Latin | Message 25 of 30 19 July 2012 at 3:48pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Mjøl, mjølk and graut are still official spelling in Bokmål alongisde the far more common and traditional forms mel,
melk and grøt. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| daegga Tetraglot Senior Member Austria lang-8.com/553301 Joined 4522 days ago 1076 posts - 1792 votes Speaks: German*, EnglishC2, Swedish, Norwegian Studies: Danish, French, Finnish, Icelandic | Message 26 of 30 19 July 2012 at 5:04pm | IP Logged | |||||
isn't that the definite plural? eg. guttene = gutta in some eastnorwegian dialects and I had to laugh when I read the quote from TYS "there are not many feminine nouns". I recently did some corpus linguistics on the Norwegian "ordbank" (used for the search of inflected forms in the online Bokmålsordboka). Here are some results: There are around 25,000 words (well, it's a bit lower, maybe 23,200, I don't remember the exact count) in Bokmålsordboka that can officially be used as femininum in modern Bokmål. There are quite many composite nouns listed however (a lot with -tid or -sak), so the actual number is a bit lower (maybe around 20.000, about half of which end in -het, -(n)ing, -inne, -esse, etc.). Still not that low a number (there are about 115,000 nouns as lexical entries in Bokmålsordboka, so that means about 20% of all nouns can be feminine) There was a list of about 1100 words that could only be female after the reform in 1938, the list was shrunk to 600-700 in a later reform (1981) and there are no words today that must be used with female gender. I take these words are still used more commonly with female gender (like jenta). So the statement should rather read "there are not many nouns commonly used with female gender" or something like that. Edited by daegga on 19 July 2012 at 6:19pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| hrhenry Octoglot Senior Member United States languagehopper.blogs Joined 5131 days ago 1871 posts - 3642 votes Speaks: English*, SpanishC2, ItalianC2, Norwegian, Catalan, Galician, Turkish, Portuguese Studies: Polish, Indonesian, Ojibwe | Message 27 of 30 19 July 2012 at 5:23pm | IP Logged | |||||
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This thread seems to have veered pretty far from the original question, and gotten
bogged down in the mintutiae of the language. In an attempt to bring it back to the original question, I'll also recommend "På Vei", and also recommend it be followed by "Stein på stein", then "Her på berget". One good online resource worth checking out is Norword, located here. I believe it was originally created as "Sett i gang", or one of the authors may have gone one to create that course - I can't remember. In any case, it's a good, free, online resource worth checking out. R. == Edited by hrhenry on 19 July 2012 at 5:54pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Medulin Tetraglot Senior Member Croatia Joined 4669 days ago 1199 posts - 2192 votes Speaks: Croatian*, English, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Norwegian, Hindi, Nepali | Message 28 of 30 19 July 2012 at 6:31pm | IP Logged | |||||
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After 2005, in ''official'' Bokmaal, there are no longer words that must be obligatory feminine, before 2005 some nouns like jente had to be feminine: jenta (the girl) which was awkward to people from Bergen. After 2005 all forms are acceptable:
jenta-jenten, kua-kuen, dronninga-dronningen, rettskrivinga -rettskrivingen etc. So, people in Bergen can use masculine forms for all these nouns, and people who live in regions where feminine forms are a norm (Stavanger, Trondheim, Troms) can use feminine forms, if they like to. Riksmaal (the unofficial, the most conservative form of Bokmaal) has made some reforms too, now its official dictionary allows for these 3 nouns to be feminine: jenta (the girl), hytta (the hut) and øya (the island). All other nouns cannot be feminine. The list of most frequent nouns used in female forms: http://norwegianlanguage.info/grammar/ei-nouns.html This (nowegianlanguage.info) is a good site for learners. My blog on Norwegian has some information too: http://norwegianquestions.blogspot.com/ Courses made outside Norway don't bother with the feminine gender (except for Pimsleur), courses made in Norway use the feminine forms, for example this one from the Trondheim University: NORWEGIAN ON THE NET http://www.ntnu.edu/now West Oslo - East Oslo/Romerike difference is nowhere as drastic as the difference between the speech of the city of Bergen (with its 2 gender- only system) and the region just outside Bergen (known as Strill, where Nynorsk is the official written form, and where dialects with the obligatory feminine gender are spoken). You can imagine a ''conflict'' within the county of Hordaland betwen 2gender Bokmaal and Nynorsk. ;) Bergen serves as a capital of the whole region, so many times even newspapers articles and job advertisements are in Nynorsk. But people from Bergen tolerate people from Strill, as long as they use the french R. All other differences are forgiven. ;) I guess we learners must be just as flexible as the native speakers. In Brazilian Portuguese, in writing and in formal speech clitics go after the verb: CUIDE-SE !(take care of yourself!), but in informal speech they go before the verb: SE CUIDE! (take care of yourself!), some people may say SE CUIDE to a friend, and CUIDE-SE as a warning, to an enemy...So, in Southeastern Norway, the same flexibity applies to female nouns: boka, natta may be informal to normal while boken, natten are normal to formal.. Natta! is used as informal greating, for example. Maybe boka, natta is more direct, while boken, natten is less direct. Maybe you use boka, natta...addressing people you know (tú in Spanish, du in German) while you use boken, natten... with people you're not familiar with (usted in Spanish, Sie in German). Edited by Medulin on 19 July 2012 at 7:15pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| tractor Tetraglot Senior Member Norway Joined 5454 days ago 1349 posts - 2292 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, Catalan Studies: French, German, Latin | Message 29 of 30 19 July 2012 at 6:52pm | IP Logged | |||||
The ending -a can at least represent definite feminine singular (Bokmål, Nynorsk, most dialects), indefinte feminine singular (Nynorsk and many dialects), definite neutral plural (Bokmål, Nynorsk, many dialects), definite masculine plural (many dialects), undefinte masculine plural (many dialects), undefinite neutral plural (many dialects) and undefinite feminine plural (many dialects)... Anyway, this thread should be brought back on track... 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| ericblair Senior Member United States Joined 4712 days ago 480 posts - 700 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French | Message 30 of 30 14 August 2012 at 6:36am | IP Logged | |||||
Hey! My copy of Klouman's "Learn Norwegian" just arrived in the mail. I have the 5th edition, so hopefully that doesn't matter for the audio. If you (or anyone else reading this) could help me out with the audio, I would really appreciate it! Thank you. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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