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Death of British dialect | ||
Tags: Dialect | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| Ogrim Heptaglot Senior Member France Joined 4638 days ago 991 posts - 1896 votes  Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, French, Romansh, German, Italian Studies: Russian, Catalan, Latin, Greek, Romanian | Message 1 of 11 05 October 2012 at 8:31am | IP Logged | ||
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This article in the Guardian reports the death of the last speaker of Cromarty, a dialect that was spoken on the wild Black Isle of the Moray Firth. The article itself has an interesting take on the question of dialects and languages, and how they evolve.
Link to article Edit: fixed link Edited by Ogrim on 05 October 2012 at 9:15am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Elexi Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5564 days ago 938 posts - 1840 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French, German, Latin | Message 2 of 11 05 October 2012 at 10:14am | IP Logged | ||
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Nice article, but:
'The radio comedian Mark Steel visited Berwick-upon-Tweed and asked a local entertainer to perform in local dialect. He sounded incomprehensible to radio listeners, but the Berwick audience roared with laughter. To their ears he was speaking ordinary English.' Err, no. To their ears he was speaking in local dialect - which made it even more of a show. 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| lizardon Newbie Ireland Joined 4446 days ago 5 posts - 6 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Swedish | Message 3 of 11 06 October 2012 at 1:06am | IP Logged | ||
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'What of northern Irish and southern Gaelic?'
This makes absolutely no sense. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| tennisfan Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 5359 days ago 130 posts - 247 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, Spanish Studies: German | Message 4 of 11 06 October 2012 at 11:11pm | IP Logged | ||
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Here is a link to several audio clips of the brothers speaking in Cromarty dialect:
http://www.ambaile.org/en/search/data?type_id=3&field,DC_REL ATION,substring,string=Am+Baile%3A+Cromarty+Fisher+Folk 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| William Camden Hexaglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 6271 days ago 1936 posts - 2333 votes Speaks: English*, German, Spanish, Russian, Turkish, French | Message 5 of 11 07 October 2012 at 5:17pm | IP Logged | ||
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Mass standardised education tends to undermine dialect, which is often regarded as an imperfect version of the standard language, or at best as comical. The media also have a significant effect. Dialect versions of various languages often have an earthy and comical effect absent from the standard languages, but this can lead to dialect not being taken seriously.
I once read a century-old volume of Tennyson's poems, which included some English dialect poetry, either written by Tennyson himself or else was his recording of verse or ballads in local dialect. Whether the dialect or dialects still exist, I don't know. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| HMS Senior Member England Joined 5106 days ago 143 posts - 256 votes Speaks: English* | Message 6 of 11 08 October 2012 at 5:01am | IP Logged | ||
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What do you think about the classification of "Lowland Scots" as a language, and what do you think the outcome would be if a non-local tried to use it on a native?
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| beano Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4621 days ago 1049 posts - 2152 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Russian, Serbian, Hungarian | Message 7 of 11 08 October 2012 at 12:22pm | IP Logged | ||
Lowland Scots is obviously related to English and by extension other Germanic tongues. You could certainly make a case for it being a language. There are existing examples of European languages which are very similar to another but are regarded as individual languages, even though there is a high degree of mutual comprehension. The trouble is, most Scottish people nowadays don't actually speak "pure" Lowlands Scots, they use Scottish English which is essentially English liberally sprinkled with Scots vocabulary and a few verbs and adjectives which have crossed over. As for what happens when a non-Scot uses this type of speech. Actually, most people would simply accept it as being normal. I notice this in Germany when I make a conscious attempt to speak Berlinerisch. Most folk are not language enthusiasts and just answer you without further comment because that is the language they hear every day, why should it surprise, excite or even offend them a great deal? Others of course would compliment an outsider using Scots expressions. If the Scottish person was in the habit of speaking a more "proper" form of English, they would answer in this fashion. Everyone here can understand broad Scots, even if they don't speak this way normally. Thankfully, Scots is no longer seen as bad English and its use is now actively encouraged in education circles. Edited by beano on 08 October 2012 at 12:35pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6702 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 8 of 11 08 October 2012 at 1:56pm | IP Logged | ||
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Beano sums up the situation of Scots rather nicely, and it has been discussed before. The 'Scots' you hear in Scotland is so full of English words that it is hard to call it a language - it functions as a dialect, but at least most people in Scotland speak with a recognizable twang to their English. I can't identify the different Scots dialects, and there are some Northern English dialects which form a natural bridge, but by and large you are not in doubt when you hear a Scotsman speak one of the Scots variants of English.
The real language behind this compromise(d) form deserves to be seen as an independent language. I have made an effort to learn this language, although with the usual limitation concerning the inner divisions into dialects or subdialects which are just too confusing for an outsider. Even the orthography isn't totally stable, but there are some items which all writers share - like "winnae" for 'will nae' (will not/won't) and "mickle" for 'big' etc. I naturally prefer the more radical variations because it is more fun to learn something with a distinct profile. But I have not tried to speak the language of certain passages in my log or my videos in Scotland itself. I'm far from certain that all native Scotsmen would appreciate it. Edited by Iversen on 08 October 2012 at 2:02pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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