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The Nail That Sticks Out Gets Hammered | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| clumsy Octoglot Senior Member Poland lang-8.com/6715Registered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5177 days ago 1116 posts - 1367 votes  Speaks: Polish*, English, Japanese, Korean, French, Mandarin, Italian, Vietnamese Studies: Spanish, Arabic (Written), Swedish Studies: Danish, Dari, Kirundi | Message 1 of 21 05 October 2012 at 10:30pm | IP Logged | ||
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"The Nail That Sticks Out Gets Hammered down."
This is the most known Japanese proverb often said to ilustrate the conformity of Japanese society. But is it a real proverb? From Japanese dictionary : 出(で)る杭(くい)は打たれる １ 才能・手腕があってぬきんでている人は、と かく人から憎まれる。 ２ さし出たことをする者は、人から非難され、 制裁を受ける。 ◆文化庁が発表した平成18年度 国語に関す� �� ��世論調査」では、本来の言い方である「 出� ��杭は打たれる」を使う人が73.1パーセン � �、 間違った言い方「出る釘は打たれる」を使う 人が19.0パーセントという結果が出ている。 The explanation says that this proverb ilustrates that people who excell in some areas are prone to be criticized and hated. Moreover it says that it should be 'stake' and not nail. Using 釘/nail is said to be incorrect. And finally in what sense is it used? It can be used when criticizing such behaviour and not when praising it. Edited by clumsy on 05 October 2012 at 10:36pm 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| IronFist Senior Member United States Joined 6436 days ago 663 posts - 941 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Japanese, Korean | Message 2 of 21 05 October 2012 at 11:42pm | IP Logged | ||
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I didn't think it had to do with people excelling in some areas being hated. I mean, that's kinda normal jealousy... you know... like if someone is a really good artist or something, other people are like "whoa, I wish I could paint that well!" or whatever.
I interpreted it to mean don't be an individual. Look the same as everyone else. Don't express your own uniqueness. That's why people dye their hair and have crazy Japanese fashion... because when you force people to be a certain way for awhile, it eventually explodes the other way. Ganguro makeup, for example: 
Or the recent "donut head" trend: 
Without making this thread R-rated, Japan also tends to repress sexuality... and if you're familiar with the Japanese adult industry you'll see all sorts of examples of how repression will cause a bunch of stuff to come out in really weird ways. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| patuco Diglot Moderator Gibraltar Joined 7014 days ago 3795 posts - 4268 votes Speaks: Spanish, English* Personal Language Map | Message 3 of 21 06 October 2012 at 1:08am | IP Logged | ||
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Not wanting to derail this thread too much, but I have to know how the hell they put a donut in their foreheads.
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| IronFist Senior Member United States Joined 6436 days ago 663 posts - 941 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Japanese, Korean | Message 4 of 21 06 October 2012 at 2:02am | IP Logged | ||
It's a saline injection I believe, and it only lasts for about a day. 
More info and pics here (Be aware, a video ad may autoplay on this site): http://izismile.com/2012/09/26/donut_head_freaks_from_japan_ 5_pics.html Edited by IronFist on 06 October 2012 at 2:04am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Levi Pentaglot Senior Member United States Joined 5566 days ago 2268 posts - 3328 votes Speaks: English*, French, Esperanto, German, Spanish Studies: Russian, Dutch, Portuguese, Mandarin, Japanese, Italian | Message 5 of 21 06 October 2012 at 3:36am | IP Logged | ||
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I'm not sure how much of that you can really pin down on Japanese society's collectivist attitudes. It's not like we have a shortage of strange attention-seeking fads here in the highly individualist USA. Whereas China doesn't really have that sort of thing, at least not nearly to the same extent, even though it is with Japan on the collectivist end of the spectrum.
Not that I think it matters any. If they're not hurting anyone, I really don't care what they do to themselves. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| IronFist Senior Member United States Joined 6436 days ago 663 posts - 941 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Japanese, Korean | Message 6 of 21 06 October 2012 at 7:20am | IP Logged | ||
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I don't have a problem with anyone putting donuts on their head if that's what they want to do.
I know every country has its weird fads, but Japan just has some really weird... stuff. Used panties in vending machines. Rape video games. Tentacle porn. Wife dolls. Stuff I can't mention here. Yet their censorship laws require porn to be censored (well, the genitals, not the tentacles). Anyway, "the nail that sticks up gets hammered down" means it's in your best interest to conform. Disclaimer: I'm not into any of the stuff mentioned above. It's just the kind of stuff you come across when you read blogs from people who are surprised at what they find in Japan. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5380 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 7 of 21 07 October 2012 at 2:31am | IP Logged | ||
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It most certainly is a real proverb. I've heard many Japanese people use this expression,
in English and in Japanese, to mean that one is not supposed to stand out from the crowd, cause waves, rock the boat and that you should just go with the flow. This has many advantages for the Japanese society as a whole, but on an individual level, it has the effect one can imagine: lack of confidence, fear of expressing an opposing view or pointing out a mistake, etc. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Hiiro Yui Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 4716 days ago 111 posts - 126 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese | Message 8 of 21 11 October 2012 at 4:55am | IP Logged | ||
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This is the kind of thing I hate about different cultures in general. I tell them some of the things they do are illogical and they respond with, "but it's part of our culture/ it's our tradition". I don't question that it is one of their traditions; the question is, "is there a logical reason to do it?" There often isn't (especially with conformity). My goal isn't to preserve traditions/cultures; my goal is to get people to act logically.
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