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The Nail That Sticks Out Gets Hammered | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5383 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes  Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 17 of 21 15 October 2012 at 4:08pm | IP Logged | ||
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It's the ultimate desire to not be the one to stand out, to not make others feel inadequate -- and presumably to not be made to feel inadequate.
As I just explained in my log (post 374), I was discussing the issue of Japanese people using katakana to show the pronunciation when learning a foreign language. The two people I was talking to explained -- almost in unison, and I'd heard similar comments from 2 other people in the past -- that students who take language classes in Japan are hesitant to speak properly, or to pronounce things better than the others, because they don't want to stand out -- to the point where they will fake a bad accent just to fit in! Now this is not just random proverb -- it's quite powerful and deeply engrained in the culture. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| TixhiiDon Tetraglot Senior Member Japan Joined 5466 days ago 772 posts - 1474 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese, German, Russian Studies: Georgian | Message 18 of 21 16 October 2012 at 12:57am | IP Logged | ||
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As I wrote a while back in my log,I found this to be a big problem in my Georgian class, to the extent that it
massively hindered the learning speed of my Japanese classmates. It was extremely rare for anyone to volunteer an answer (big tip for anyone teaching in Japan: ALWAYS point to the person you want to give you the answer, or stand there looking like an idiot for the next five minutes), and a certain period of humming and hawing before providing the correct answer was vital to avoid looking like a show off. The only times the class became animated were when the students enthusiastically discussed how terrible they were at Georgian. This resulted in people having studied the language for between two and five years remaining unable to form even the simplest sentences. Japan produces lots of experts, specialists, and musical and scientific geniuses, and anyone who has lived in Tokyo for a while will know that there are plenty of eccentrics and individualists here, but yes, in general, there is massive pressure to conform and hide erudition and knowledgeability. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Hiiro Yui Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 4719 days ago 111 posts - 126 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese | Message 19 of 21 19 October 2012 at 5:45am | IP Logged | ||
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Arekkusu,
I was going to say that because of the strangeness of French spelling, katakana might be helpful for gaining insight into how words are really pronounced by French speakers, but you must already know this. By the way, did you offer that woman the phonetic (not IPA) spellings? I thought I saw you discussing the existence of such a thing before. As for conforming in class, it all comes down to their view that it is morally bad for a person to act arrogantly/confidently. To change this, you have to get them to state this view clearly, then watch their actions for any sign of arrogance/confidence and point it out to them. Tell them to either change their views or their actions so they match each other. Vwala! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5383 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 20 of 21 19 October 2012 at 6:13am | IP Logged | ||
I didn't offer any kind of transcription as there must have been over 20 words in the list. And I don't remember ever doing such a thing on Japanese sites either. As for katakana providing any sort of insight for French, the same could be said for English, but you and I both know katakana is an awful way to transcribe English. If you are referring to some general sense of insight, in the same way going to the airport provides insight about aeronautics, then yes, most people using katakana are just looking for a general idea of the pronunciation. But you know, if you are going to bother transcribe something, why not use a system that actually works? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Hiiro Yui Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 4719 days ago 111 posts - 126 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese | Message 21 of 21 19 October 2012 at 1:01pm | IP Logged | ||
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I was thinking of this thread. I was mistaken. You didn't really participate in it.
Yeah, I know what katakana does to English, but if a Japanese person memorizes the rules regarding romanization, he might be able to guess how English speakers pronounce words if he were given both English spelling and the katakana version. I'm not saying they succeed very often. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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