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General tips for new learners | ||
Tags: Beginner | Learning Technique/Method | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
| slymie Tetraglot Groupie China Joined 5163 days ago 81 posts - 154 votes  Speaks: English, Macedonian Studies: French, Mandarin, Greek Studies: Shanghainese, Uyghur, Russian | Message 41 of 59 20 January 2011 at 2:46am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||
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Hi Leo, I enjoy reading your posts and respect your opinion therefore I'd like inquire about a few of your points..
First, thanks for the compliment. Second, how and why do you study a language that doesn't interest you? Near my home there are plenty of scam artists that prey on tourists, usually pretending to be students studying English and looking for language partners. I've thought to myself why on earth they would use these language skills for evil, as I would never be able to learn a language if I wasn't interested in the culture and making friends from that culture. I came to the conclusion that they at first had a real interest in learning, but then their lives took a different path.
I do this more out of nessesity than anything else - I have a bad memory and sometimes forget what chapter I did the day before, especially for stuff like pimsleur.I use a A4 notebook and just write the date, what lesson I learned, then a list of any new words I came across through the day and lessons, for quick reference. More of a learning log than a diary, whatever difference that may be.
Agree to strongly disagree here. Early speaking is huge. Anyone who doesn't think so is really wasting time. I fork out money to have native speakers just listen to me try to talk about my job, life, ect and correct me as I go. The amount your brain absorbs from these sessions is second to none, because its how your brain was designed to naturally learn languages. I.E. Student "Yesterday I was work and.." NS "WorkING" Student "Oh.. yesterday I was working and boss my sa..." NS "my boss, not boss my" Student "ok. Yesterday I was working and my boss said I good worker" NS "said I AM A good worker" Srudent "right.. yesterday I was working and my boss said I am a good worker" NS "perfect" obviously its very annoying for the Native speaker when you are a beginner but being corrected in real time with a native accent is really worth paying for. I used to try and find "language partners" but now I just pay them as I want them to be 100% focused. I also take notes during the sessions, and truly think I would take 2-3 times longer to be fluent in a language without them. Obviously you need a base before this so don't book a tutor before you have even completed a basic level text. 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||||||||
| microsnout TAC 2010 Winner Senior Member Canada microsnout.wordpress Joined 5406 days ago 277 posts - 553 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French | Message 42 of 59 20 January 2011 at 5:25am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||
I totally agree. I have found similar advantages to payed tutors. It is much easier to maintain a regular schedule - same time, same day each week - more focused and you never feel they just want to get through your time so you can help them. Having said that, there are always exceptions and by chance, my best language partner is a "free" exchange partner - totally focused, endlessly patient, regular like a clock and with an equal passion and curiosity about every nuance of English. Go figure. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||||||||
| martyall Newbie United States Joined 4874 days ago 3 posts - 3 votes | Message 43 of 59 18 May 2011 at 11:57am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||
Oh well thanks for the inspiring advice. I will surely earn the fruits of my deeds. :D 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||||||||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5316 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 44 of 59 18 May 2011 at 3:38pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||
The only reason I'd pay a tutor (I'm doing this in Spanish right now), is to save time. I'd like to find a good language partner, equally devoted as I am, but it would take me twice as much time to meet him/her than it does to meet my tutor. Although not all my encounters with language partners were ideal, I've never had one who didn't genuinely want to help when my turn came. I agree with microsnout that the ideal situation is to have a free language partner when both people are truly motivated to learn and to help. I've had one such Japanese partner for over a year and a half and she is number 1 on the list of things that helped me learn. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||||||||
| Sandman Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5343 days ago 168 posts - 389 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Japanese | Message 45 of 59 21 May 2011 at 11:54am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||
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In my experience it seems translations use more standard vocabulary and grammar than you may find in purely native works, all else equal, thus making them good stepping stones for that last jump to native materials. Translators don't seem to take a huge amount of creative license and go on tangents with excessive amounts of flowery language, and therefore the text usually seems pretty straightforward. Even more straightforward than the original usually. If the text is something you've already read a million times in its original language, then being aware of the danger of getting bored reading the translation is important, but if it's something you are still interested in reading I'm not sure what the damage would be. I just see a couple translated texts as one more graduated hurdle to jump over on the path to fully native material. Edited by Sandman on 29 May 2011 at 11:51am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||||||||
| Cavesa Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 4944 days ago 3277 posts - 6779 votes Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, German, Italian | Message 46 of 59 27 May 2011 at 11:29pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||
Your feelings may change one day (sounds impossible but it happened to me and German) but they are much more likely to change if you let them. Don't force yourself to the language, perhaps try something from the culture that might motivate you, for example a translated book (for exemple one of my motivations for Spanish is the wish to read Borges in original one day) or whatever. Or find first what is it you dislike about the language and you might find a solution. If it doesn't work, just choose another language because you won't learn it. Or you will learn parts of it but for a huge cost. To the first question. Perhaps you should not think of childrens's books and movies as of (the only) simple readings. That's what simple texts aimed at language learners are for. I have seen such texts for the popular languages-Spanish, French, German (and English), not sure about others but if you choose to study Spanish, there are lots of such easy "books" available. .......... And my tips, some of those were probably already covered (sorry for long post): 1)There is a huge difference between learning a language for profit (job or school mostly) or for pleasure. Both options can be motivating but the pleasure works better. So I'd advice to either choose a language you like, or build some positive feelings towards the language you need. 2)There are more types of learners than just the visual/auditory/touch memory. Some people like to discover rules only from context, some need to see them in a table as well. Some need to write wordlists, some prefer flashcards. And there are other and there are combinations. When you're learning your first foreign language, don't be surprised that it might take you some time till you discover what suits you. 3)Invest the bit of time to choose what sources will you be learning for. Having a good textbook is a kind of motivation as well (or rather a bad one is demotivating). When choosing a course, find out what level is the textbook supposed to take you to (most new books have a level of CEFR written on them), look at the structure of a unit (are there enough texts showing things in context, are there grammar explanations, lists of used vocabulary, does the book have audio, are there many exercises and solutions to them?), the price (more money doesn't always mean more quality), eventual availability of successive courses of the series. This forum is a great resource of reviews but remember that what might suit others might not suit you. 4)Combine sources. As soon as you are sure your choice of language was the right one, it's time to start thinking of what to use to complement your course. No single course is perfect, using more sources allows you as well to continue in the other one if you get stuck in the first (doesn't have to be another coursebook at all, there are many internet courses, podcasts, exercises etc.). 5)It's as well useful to get a grammar reference book (the best are those with many examples and exercises in my opinion). A dictionary is necessary later but I don't agree that it should be one of the first things to buy. There are quite good dictionaries on internet which will suffice until you know enough of the language and your way of language learning to be able to tell which of the tomes in the bookstore seems most suiting to your needs. 6)Be realistic about how much time you will be able to invest in your language to prevent dissappointment. There is nothing wrong in progressing slowly when you just don't have more time to put in the language. 7)Sort your goals to long-term and short-term ones, the feeling of achievement is a great motivation. I'd say it's good to be realistic about your short-term achievements and dream more of the long-term ones but it might be just me. Sorry again for long post, I hope it might help someone. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||||||||
| Jeffers Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4844 days ago 2151 posts - 3960 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Hindi, Ancient Greek, French, Sanskrit, German | Message 47 of 59 03 July 2011 at 1:08pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||
Harry Potter in Ancient Greek attemts to do just this. It tries to actually make the story comprehensible to an Ancient Greek, as if a Greek person time travelled and witnessed the story. EDIT: I looked at the website for Harry Potter in Ancient Greek and realized I was mistaken. It is the notes on the Greek text which are written from the perspective of a time-travelling Greek, who now wants to explain the text to his fellows. The webpage is: http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~loxias/harry_potter.htm Unfortunately, the notes only cover chapters 1 & 2. I suspect they will never go any further, as that was what they covered when I first bought the book about 5 years ago. Edited by Jeffers on 03 July 2011 at 3:33pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||||||||
| Jeffers Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4844 days ago 2151 posts - 3960 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Hindi, Ancient Greek, French, Sanskrit, German | Message 48 of 59 03 July 2011 at 7:09pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||
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I was thinking about the use of children's books, mentioned above. I used them extensively when studying Hindi, and used a few for German. Finding good children's books in Hindi can be quite difficult, even in India, as most bookstores don't carry them. I always kept my eyes open for the right sort of shops, and bought a lot at school booksales.
As has been mentioned, children's books use structures and forms which tend to come late in most textbooks. They just don't have the full vocabulary and complicated syntax of adult writing. I also find that books for older children can be quite interesting. In Hindi I got books about folklore and history, and biographies of important figures such as Mahatma Gandhi, Indira Gandhi and so on. So besides being somewhat easier, they gave me a bit of vocabulary and information I wanted. 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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