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Thought experiment about memory | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
| allen Newbie United States Joined 5019 days ago 23 posts - 73 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: Korean, Thai | Message 1 of 10 01 January 2011 at 3:25am | IP Logged | ||
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Here's a thought experiment. Let's imagine two scenarios in which we are trying to
learn 100 words. In the first we spend 3 continuous hours studying. In the second we spend 20 minutes each day for 9 days. Which way is more effective? I think most people will agree that the second way is. Now this has a number of implications. First, that the absolute amount of time spent studying isn't as important as the timing of studying. It would seem that there's a ceiling on the amount time we can spend on learning just one thing. Or more accurately that there are diminishing returns over time in any given study session for learning one piece of information, and that learning potential (for that one piece of information) replenishes during rest. So maybe we can just learn another thing, which will have its own individual potential and ceiling, while we wait for the first thing's potential to replenish. Second, chasing a feeling of progress may actually be counterproductive. This is because in the first example, we certainly feel that we have learned many of those 100 words in just a matter of hours, and in the second case we may feel like we've spent a few days studying and not really learned any of the words to a level of satisfaction. If we use the second strategy, there's a bit of a psychological battle, to have faith that although we may spend a lot of effort with little noticable progress, in the end it will all come together faster than if we had pressed ourselves for immediate results. Some people say that it's very difficult to learn even 10 words a day. This is because they are using the first strategy, where they take a list of 10 words and try to completely memorize them by the end of the day. And it's true that at the end of the day, they will have 10 words that they can actually use, and this is important for some people. I think this strategy becomes the default for some people because it's what they learn in school, as it would be a good way to study for tests. But for many of us for whom language learning has no deadline, there may be a better way. If we extrapolate from the thought experiment in the first paragrah, it would be faster and more effective to familiarize yourself with as many words as possible, say, 100+ words a day, not being concerned about whether you have completely learned any of those words. Then over time, review those words repeatedly, spending very little time and effort on memorization. At first you'll see very little progress, but you'll soon surpass anyone using the "10 words a day to completion" method. I think this is an explantion for why many of the better language learners will say that, "one day everything just started clicking." Everything they had been learning had just started to cross the threshold of comprehension. FWIW, I've followed through on this line of thinking myself by giving up flashcards and vocab lists altogether, and instead just read a lot and look up every word that I don't know and immediately moving on. 6 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Cowlegend999 Groupie CanadaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5079 days ago 72 posts - 94 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Mandarin, Cantonese | Message 2 of 10 01 January 2011 at 5:17am | IP Logged | ||
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Isn't this similar to the gold list method?
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| leosmith Senior Member United States Joined 6485 days ago 2365 posts - 3804 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Tagalog | Message 3 of 10 07 April 2011 at 4:14am | IP Logged | ||
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Super-fast vocabulary learning techniques
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| Ari Heptaglot Senior Member Norway Joined 6517 days ago 2314 posts - 5695 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Mandarin, Cantonese Studies: Czech, Latin, German | Message 4 of 10 07 April 2011 at 10:17am | IP Logged | ||
But surely this line of thinking is exactly what's behind SRS flashcards? Except that you time the learning to when you're the most receptive, instead of trusting in chance. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Doitsujin Diglot Senior Member Germany Joined 5255 days ago 1256 posts - 2363 votes Speaks: German*, English | Message 5 of 10 07 April 2011 at 12:22pm | IP Logged | ||
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Since trained memory athletes can easily memorize 100 words in 5 minutes using mnemonic systems such as link words, peg lists and memory palaces, IMHO, the method used to learn new words is more important than the amount of time spent learning them.
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 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6638 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 6 of 10 07 April 2011 at 2:51pm | IP Logged | ||
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With flashcards, Anki and the goldlist method you do very little with a word in the beginning, but rely on meeting it again and again until you have learned it. The main difference - except going digital or not - is that the intervals are determined by your page turning frequency with flashcards, by a clever algorithm with Anki and similar programs, and by the calender when you use the Goldlist method (with long intervals between each round). Allen's repetition rounds seem to be closer and more numerous than those of prof. Huliganov, but the basic idea otherwise seens to be the same.
'Oldfashioned' two-column wordlists and my somewhat more sophisticated brand of three-column wordlists assume that you work hard when you meet/make the list, and in the latter case then there is also one planned repetition round, typically one day later (and I think this repetition is absolute essential for longterm retention!). But after that you are left either to read your old lists or to go on making new lists AND doing your extensive reading/listening as usual. Just relying on reading/listening and looking up a few words now and then have neither the regularity of flashcards,Anki og goldlists, nor the intensive activity at the onset of ordinary or three-column wordlists. I fail to see why it should be faster not to do any intensive work in the beginning AND then furthermore to renounce on regular repetition rounds. But go for it if you don't like the structured methods. The methods of the memory athletes are definitely useful if you need to learn long lists by heart, especially lists in a fixed order, but the task of learning X thousand words in no particular order is more diffuse. The methods of the memory wizards might be a help, but I don't feel particularly attracted to their methods. However some elements can be used on a more modest level. For instance I have tried looking at different paintings on my wall while I memorize 5-7 words, and actually it does seem that the simple act of looking at a particular picture will make me remember a word if it won't reappear by itself. But there are many tricks you can use, and I prefer using associations based on sound or connections to other words when I memorize a wordlist. Just about the only thing that is totally irrelevant for me is the order of the words, which is sine qua non for the memory artists. Edited by Iversen on 28 June 2011 at 1:04am 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5316 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 7 of 10 07 April 2011 at 3:57pm | IP Logged | ||
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With sufficient exposure, don't the words that need to be learned just keep reappearing naturally in similar intervals? This way, you learn only what's really needed and you waste no time organizing lists or words. Moreover, you learn them in context, which is exactly where you'll be using them.
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| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 5946 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 8 of 10 07 April 2011 at 10:21pm | IP Logged | ||
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No more than 10 words in a day? Nonsense -- I've done more than that on various occasions.
The secret? Nothing serious, it's just a matter of using them. Cramming from word lists is hard, but learning words in a structured way that uses them in a variety of contexts makes the words stick much better. 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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