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Fluent in 3 months method? | ||
Tags: Fluency | Learning Technique/Method | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies | ( Topic Closed) |  |
| hrhenry Octoglot Senior Member United States languagehopper.blogs Joined 5065 days ago 1871 posts - 3642 votes  Speaks: English*, SpanishC2, ItalianC2, Norwegian, Catalan, Galician, Turkish, Portuguese Studies: Polish, Indonesian, Ojibwe | Message 33 of 42 24 June 2011 at 5:58pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
He's done well for 6 weeks, I think. That said, she is also very patient -but he says she's a good friend, so I would expect such patience. R. == 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| irishpolyglot Nonaglot Senior Member Ireland fluentin3months Joined 5568 days ago 285 posts - 892 votes Speaks: Irish, English*, French, Esperanto, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, German, Sign Language Studies: Mandarin | Message 34 of 42 24 June 2011 at 6:06pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Excellent example! :) I'm going to get someone else who was successful with applying my advice to guest post soon.
Of course people in this forum are welcome to message me through my website's email form if they have ideas for guest posts that encourage people to speak languages and would like to share them with a large audience. @hrhenry The easy solution is to be friends with as many natives as possible surely ;) In Ireland we say "A stranger is just a friend you haven't met yet". I make as many friends as possible, and then many many people have patience to help me reach fluency quicker. Apart from asking directions and ordering food, I don't speak my languages with any "strangers" to be honest ;) @Lianne Thanks :D 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Liza Newbie Hungary Joined 4836 days ago 1 posts - 4 votes Speaks: English | Message 35 of 42 25 June 2011 at 1:09am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Hi All,
I have read the book and have been following the blog, as well. What he shares in his book is not new for me at all. It's title is also misleading as that of the blog. In my opinion, anyone can learn a language (spoken form) at a basic level in three months, especially if exposed to the target language 24/7 for 3 months! There is no trick or magic in what Benny shares in his book. As I can see fluent in this case is equal with the basic level. But Benny is a good 'showman' and knows how to share things. But anyone who is motivated and self-disciplined at a certain level can learn a language at a basic level in 3 months. 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5365 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 36 of 42 25 June 2011 at 7:28pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I must come across as a bit of a curmudgeon because I'm always carrying on about the importance of using words properly, especially that awful term fluency. Now, I know some people are probably saying, "Oh oh.There goes s_allard again on his usual rant about fluency, proficiency and the CEFR model." Rest assured, I don't bother anymore. I just sit back and observe how people talk about fluency and think they're talking about the same thing when in fact they don't really know what they are talking about.
An interesting point that has come up in this thread is the notion of learning a language for the pleasure of learning vs for the purpose of using with other speakers. If I understand properly, that is the big distinction between Iversen and Benny. I think this is a very important point that determines one whole approach to learning a language. If you are learning a language to speak with people, then the emphasis will be on oral interaction. Immersion and maximum interaction with natives are obviously the way to go. On the other hand, if learning a language is an aesthetic experience in its own right, then the emphasis will be on deciphering the grammar, learning as many words as possible and learning to speak more for oneself than for others. The emphasis is more on erudition than on interaction with natives. I don't believe one approach is better than other. I do believe that many of us are somewhat in the latter camp simply because we don't have much access to an immersion environment. From a North American perspective, I'm very envious of the Europeans in particular who can hop on a train and in a couple of hours be immersed in probably one of a dozen languages for a week-end. My little foray to an Italian grocery store in Little Italy or to a Spanish bookstore hardly qualifies as an immersion experience. But the main point here is that "speaking a language" can mean different things. Everybody here at HTLAL "speaks" two or more languages. Well, we have to qualify what we mean by speaking. That will have to wait for another day. To come back to the main point of the thread, it is quite evident that Benny's perspective is about learning to actually speak the language with natives quickly and effectively. I see no point in getting worked up about the title "Fluent in Three Months" or the importance of personality types in language learning. All Benny is saying is that if you have three months and you want to learn to speak a foreign language as quickly as possible, here is a strategy. Will that make you "fluent" (whatever that means) in three months? God only knows. Some people here will recall a thread we had a few weeks back over a two-day Chinese course given by Paul Noble in London. Here is what the website says: "Regardless of your current level - whether you speak absolutely none or just some - our aim is to have you conversing in Chinese by the end of your two-days with us!" In that HTLAL thread, a few people got their underwear in a knot over the idea that someone could claim to teach a language, and especially Mandarin, in just two days. Well, it turns out that Paul Noble doesn't actually claim to teach you to speak like a native in two days. In fact, he's basically giving a glimpse or a taste of how the language works. All of that in a fun way. The title is perhaps a bit misleading, but it's catchy, and, really, nobody believes that they're going to learn to speak Mandarin in two days. It's the same thing with this Fluent in Three Months false debate. Since I don't use the word fluent outside of a technical context, I find the much of the discussion quite pointless. The only thing I take away is that you can learn a lot in three months if you go about it the right way. Not exactly an earth-shaking conclusion, mind you. Edited by s_allard on 25 June 2011 at 7:30pm 7 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 5946 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 37 of 42 25 June 2011 at 8:58pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
I'm not sure the two things are really that different. If you learn a language without learning to speak it, are you ever going to truly appreciate the nuances of literature? Much of the artistry in writing is in using uncommon forms for effect -- what is called "marked language" in the field of linguistics. If you can't speak the language comfortably, you won't have a model of "unmarked" language, so you won't be able to appreciate the deviation from the norm, so you miss the full effect. One of the things I agree with Benny on is the importance of early and frequent output.
Nope, he's giving hints and tips, not a strategy, as he says himself: "There is no "Fluent in 3 months" method."
Then you are also misinterpreting the title of the blog. Because the title is his personal goal, not what the reader should aim for. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| leosmith Senior Member United States Joined 6485 days ago 2365 posts - 3804 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Tagalog | Message 38 of 42 26 June 2011 at 7:26am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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From what I've heard mostly second hand, Benny does a lot of the same things I do when I learn languages. Speaking early, using skype, traveling, etc. I
also overcame shyness to become moderately extroverted in conversation situations. I ran a poll here several years ago to see what most people want out of language studies, and it turned out to be conversation. Although that's always been my primary goal, it surprised me because I felt most of the popular threads were geared towards the other skills, especially reading. At that time, I felt I was one of the few people who advocated speaking early, coming out of one's shell, and getting aggressive with conversation. Even with the big stall caused by L-R, the forum has come around over the last couple years and now has what I consider to be a healthy balance of discussions regarding all skills. This had nothing to do with anything I wrote; I didn't get a single vote for any of those posts, and probably didn't influence a single person. I believe it's reflecting a healthy trend throughout the language learning world - increased focus on oral communication. Benny's blog has done more good in raising people's awareness about the things one needs to do to become comfortable speaking a language shortly than anything else I can think of. Not because it's anything new or unique, but because it appeals to the common woman. He has accomplished more in that department than I could ever dream of, and I appreciate it because even though I failed, this state of language learning is what I wanted. But I don't like Benny. Mostly because I'm jealous, bitter, getting old and senile. But also because he does some things that I feel someone just has to speak up and tell him is wrong. So I will continue to criticize those things, in spite of the good he's done, and in spite of his followers saying that it isn't fair. Some of my favorite things I don't like about Benny: 1) makes ridiculous sweeping statements to get people worked up, elaborates on some point within the statement, and then argues with people because they don't consider the entire scope of the statement to be the point he elaborated on. For example - "traveling won't improve your conversation skills". 2) trivializes his product sales 3) knows the reason his blog gets so many hits is because of the title, but calls people stupid for believing it. 4) wrote a really long negative blog about the French, with a relatively short disclaimer 5) doesn't speak any hard languages 6) failed miserably at Thai, for understandable reasons, but instead of admitting defeat, changed his goals, and did a victory dance 7) has a need to paint everything over-the-top positively Please don't vote for this post. 9 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| irishpolyglot Nonaglot Senior Member Ireland fluentin3months Joined 5568 days ago 285 posts - 892 votes Speaks: Irish, English*, French, Esperanto, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, German, Sign Language Studies: Mandarin | Message 39 of 42 26 June 2011 at 12:01pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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@Leo
"knows the reason his blog gets so many hits is because of the title" Now who's trivialising things? There are many many many reasons my blog gets so many hits and the URL has nothing to do with it. "From what I've heard mostly second hand" <-- This is my main problem with people criticising me so enthusiastically: they don't read anything beyond my blog title. It's narrow mindedness at its best. Stop complaining about something you have no actual information about. Most of those points further show that you get all your information about me from hearsay or from pure guesswork. You clearly haven't read a single post on my blog. As someone said already, it would be nice if this thread stayed on topic. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 5946 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 40 of 42 26 June 2011 at 12:13pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
The topic is "Fluent in 3 months method". You yourself said there is no such method. Discussion over, then? 4 persons have voted this message useful |
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