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Does the UK have its own language? | ||
Tags: United Kingdom (UK) | Accent | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| TobaccoSmoke Newbie England Joined 4374 days ago 16 posts - 21 votes | Message 1 of 39 16 December 2012 at 5:35pm | IP Logged | ||
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English obviously originated in England, but post-WW2 has become so strongly associated with America and American popular culture that it seems to me America has almost taken "ownership" of the English language.
Second language learners nowadays almost always learn American English and American spelling conventions, idioms and slang seem to be used by second language speakers more so than British spelling conventions, idioms and slang are. It seems the UK is the only ex-imperial nation that this has happened to. France is still regarded as being the cultural home of the French language and Spain is still regarded as being the cultural home of the Spanish language. Indeed, the main regulators of those languages are based in Paris and Madrid respectively and their opinion on correct language usage is accepted as the standard everywhere in the Francophone and Hispanophone world. However, in the case of the English language it seems to me that American grammarians hold more sway in the English speaking world, particularly amongst second language speakers than British grammarians do. Edited by TobaccoSmoke on 16 December 2012 at 5:35pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| iguanamon Pentaglot Senior Member Virgin Islands Speaks: Ladino Joined 5262 days ago 2241 posts - 6731 votes  Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese, Haitian Creole, Creole (French) | Message 2 of 39 16 December 2012 at 6:29pm | IP Logged | ||
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People choose to learn a language based on perceived utility and benefit. The population of the UK is about seven times smaller than that of the US. The American media- film, television, publishing and music dominates English language media. Hence, many second language learners tend to opt towards the American standard rather than the British.
France has the largest economy and largest population of native-first language French-speakers within "la francophonie. Most French language media comes from France. Therefore, the French standard dominates. Spain, for most of post colonial history, has had a larger economy and more people than most of the Spanish-speaking countries- until recently. The RAE (Real Academia Española) was established in the year 1713. Well before Spanish colonialism ended. The British sense of being peeved at not being given their proper due as the founders of the English language and guardians of proper and accepted usage might have something to do with a little thing called the American Revolution which severed deference to the crown in all manners in the US. The US went on to extend its governance to half a continent and surpassed Britain in the 20th century economically and militarily. British English is not endangered and is quite popular as a second language option in Europe due to proximity and the importance of Britain as one of the largest economies within the EU. Australia serves a similar role for the Asia-Pacific region with many second language learners looking towards Australia as their source for language learning. British standards are still taught in schools in anglophone Africa and the Asian subcontinent. As a counterpoint to the OP's point about other former colonial powers' retention of language dominance, look at what has happened with Portuguese. The recent Portuguese Orthographic Agreement of 1990 basically adopted most of Brazilian Portuguese's spellings into the language as a whole. Due to Brazil's much larger population 190,000,000 vs 10,000,000 for Portugal, most second language learners tend to opt for the Brazilian variety of the language. Number of speakers is very important in language prominence. The BBC recently had an article about the rise of speakers of English as a second language now outnumbering native speakers. Perhaps, one day, we native speakers may be dancing to their tune. Edited by iguanamon on 16 December 2012 at 6:37pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Josquin Heptaglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4844 days ago 2266 posts - 3992 votes Speaks: German*, English, French, Latin, Italian, Russian, Swedish Studies: Japanese, Irish, Portuguese, Persian | Message 3 of 39 16 December 2012 at 6:37pm | IP Logged | ||
That's wrong. In Germany, pupils are first taught British English. Only afterwards will they be introduced to American English. I for my part prefer British spelling and pronunciation over the American versions, but it's hard to avoid the influence of American English in the media. 6 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Bruno87 Diglot Groupie Argentina Joined 4382 days ago 49 posts - 72 votes Speaks: Spanish*, English Studies: German, Portuguese | Message 4 of 39 16 December 2012 at 9:03pm | IP Logged | ||
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In Latin America (Argentina at least) we were taught British English in the elementary
school, later we take the accent we prefer. I prefer American English because I am used to hearing that accent in the media and I find it sweeter than British English. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| lecavaleur Diglot Senior Member Canada Joined 4777 days ago 146 posts - 295 votes Speaks: English*, French Studies: German, Spanish | Message 5 of 39 17 December 2012 at 5:47pm | IP Logged | ||
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American English is attractive for many reasons. First, obviously, is the cultural and
economic influence of the United States. Secondly, the numbers speak for themselves: Americans represent close to 3/4 of the world's native English-speakers. Thirdly, British English has an incredible amount of internal variation of accents and dialects, many of which sound radically different from one another. Conversely, American English only has a few sub-dialects which are not so radically different on the whole, from the second- language learner's perspective (we won't get into that favorite habit of linguists, both amateur and professional, of splitting hairs). I think that if I had to learn English as a foreign language, I would choose American English, regardless of my proximity to the UK (unless, obviously, I was learning for purposes of immigration to the UK). At the end of the day, however, it really doesn't matter which one you choose. It's the same language. The differences between the two pale in comparison to the similarities. You will be understood no matter which one you choose to learn. It basically comes down to an accent, a few expressions and terms that differ, and a few orthographical and typographical variations. No big deal. Edited by lecavaleur on 17 December 2012 at 5:51pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Medulin Tetraglot Senior Member Croatia Joined 4668 days ago 1199 posts - 2192 votes Speaks: Croatian*, English, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Norwegian, Hindi, Nepali | Message 6 of 39 17 December 2012 at 5:51pm | IP Logged | ||
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Here in Croatia, students can choose between UK and US English.
What is not tolerated, is mixing of two forms in writing and speech. Most students opt for US English, since although UK is closer, we are more exposed to American culture and language usage than to the British one (90% of movies and sitcoms on our TV come from the US, and everything is shown with the original audio, there's no dubbing into Croatian). So, kids can already speak basic''American'' even before starting to learn English (in the 4th grade). As for the official usage, Croatia uses UK English with European Union officials, and US English with NATO officials. Furthermore, two thirds of Americans use a very standard form of speech (General American) while only 3% of British people have Received Pronunciation (according to Cambridge Encyclopedia of Language). Most Croatians who opt for British English have trouble understanding anything that is not in RP (and maybe Estuary). They can't understand Cheryl Cole, Scouse soccer players or Vicky Pollard. 90% of British people have non standard British pronunciation. This is very different than the situation in the US and Canada. I, personally, find an average Irish English speaker easier to understand than an average British English speaker. Many people say ''the best English in Europe is spoken in Ireland'', and I think it's true. Edited by Medulin on 17 December 2012 at 6:09pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Ogrim Heptaglot Senior Member France Joined 4639 days ago 991 posts - 1896 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, French, Romansh, German, Italian Studies: Russian, Catalan, Latin, Greek, Romanian | Message 7 of 39 17 December 2012 at 6:03pm | IP Logged | ||
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Not sure how it is today, but when I was in school in Norway you were supposed to learn British English, and the teachers would teach us (more or less successfully) RP or Queen's English pronunciation. However, due to the heavy influence of American movies and TV series, I guess most Norwegians tend to imitate (also more or less successfully) American English. That being said, British series also have a big audience in Norway, especially British comedy.
Personally I both speak and write British English, for two main reasons. English is one of the official languages of the organisation for which I work, and the spelling norm is to use British English. Secondly, because I lived five years in London, so I adapted totally to the British (Southeastern) accent. By the way, my 11 year old daughter, who loves Disney Channel and has American friends in school, tends to speak with a moderate American accent, and she thinks my English sounds posh. Edited by Ogrim on 17 December 2012 at 6:04pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
 jeff_lindqvist Diglot Moderator SwedenRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6909 days ago 4250 posts - 5711 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English Studies: German, Spanish, Russian, Dutch, Mandarin, Esperanto, Irish, French Personal Language Map | Message 8 of 39 17 December 2012 at 6:46pm | IP Logged | ||
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Most teachers I've had have had a British accent (after all, the UK is closer to Scandinavia, and there's a big chance that the teachers have spent more time there than in the US), and when I grew up, basically every anglophone show was British.
But as I wrote in British English vs American English: British English might be the norm, but hardly any kid will adopt it since the major part of the popular media is American. As simple as that. Of all my classmates over the years, I think only a handful have spoken non-rhotic English. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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