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Americans aren’t so bad at languages | ||
Tags: Using Foreign Languages | United States | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| kanewai Triglot Senior Member United States justpaste.it/kanewai Joined 4889 days ago 1386 posts - 3054 votes  Speaks: English*, French, Marshallese Studies: Italian, Spanish | Message 25 of 34 12 January 2013 at 5:40am | IP Logged | ||
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Is there anyone here that is studying languages because they need to? I don't
need French anymore than that farmer in Iowa. And yet I dedicate so much time to it.
To give credit where it's due, I got the quote from an Italo Calvino essay, Why Read the Classics?, in the New York Review of Books. Edited by kanewai on 12 January 2013 at 5:50am 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| kaptengröt Tetraglot Groupie Sweden Joined 4338 days ago 92 posts - 163 votes Speaks: English*, Swedish, Faroese, Icelandic Studies: Japanese | Message 26 of 34 12 January 2013 at 6:21am | IP Logged | ||
Actually I am studying Swedish because I had to move to Sweden (didn't move by choice - it was either Sweden or America and Sweden is better, but still not my favourite. Likewise I don't care about Swedish). In order to become a citizen and in order to go to Uni here I have to learn Swedish (even if I am taking only English courses - it's because I am an immigrant and not an exchange student). Of course it is also more difficult to find a job with only English unless you are ex. a computer programmer, even then you are expected to learn Swedish. Some of my Swedish in-laws have never spoken a single word to me in English, they did this even when I didn't know any Swedish at all, and also constantly complain if my wife or anyone else uses English with me, plus nagging me about using Swedish too. I can't mention I am still even using Icelandic off and on because everyone goes "no you need to learn Swedish!!!" as if I can't do two at once. And yes, there actually are Swedes who don't speak English, some of them are my relatives... Likewise, when I lived in Iceland, I could not get a job because I wasn't near-fluent in Icelandic and had no one who could convince their workplace to hire me. Also they never sent me any documents in English (no bank statements, no legal statements, no tax papers, not even the syllabus for beginner's Icelandic course was in English, nothing, it was all always in Icelandic) so you could call studying Icelandic in Iceland as necessary too. Sweden though, it is much much easier to get a job here if you have bad Swedish than it is in Iceland with bad Icelandic. And Sweden actually sends me papers in English sometimes. Do most Swedes have passable English, enough to get a simple meaning across? Sure. This is perfectly fine if you are a tourist or an exchange student - if you are actually living here you need to learn the language, not because "no one will understand you" (because they will understand even if you have absolutely horrible "see-Jane-run" Swedish), but because you are one step (or ten) behind since you don't know the basic language everyone else knows. And when it is an American going to Europe it's often twofold - you have to, with your monolingualism struggling to learn their language, compete with the European who has already learnt not just English but one or two other languages in school as well at the least (maybe they are or aren't fluent, but they know basics at least). So in a way it also feels a little necessary to learn one of the more major languages after you master the country's, or at least I think so. Edited by kaptengröt on 12 January 2013 at 7:34am 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Presidio Triglot Newbie United States Joined 4581 days ago 39 posts - 150 votes Speaks: English*, Russian, German Studies: Spanish, Arabic (Gulf) | Message 27 of 34 12 January 2013 at 8:09am | IP Logged | ||
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As I have said before it is easy to criticize Americans and their apparent lack of prowess when it comes to foreign languages. But allow me to make some observations, if you will:
-- Just because you do not have an interest in learning a foreign language, that does not mean you are illiterate or there is something wrong with you. If you can spent most of your life with no real necessity, incentive, or opportunity to use a foreign language, you likely have other pursuits that are more of a priority. -- If American states were similar to European countries in that they would have a number of bordering states that spoke different languages, and Americans were no more than a few hours drive from exposture to MULTIPLE languages, Americans too would likely have a greater interest in learning other languages. -- When you live in Omaha, Nebrasks (the geographic center of the US) and are 1000 miles from the closest country that speaks a different language (Mexico or Quebec in Canada) you feel less of a need to learn a foreign language than a person in Europe who is often less than an hour or two from another country with a different language. -- While Europe has several incredible places (including some of the most beautiful cities in the world), they are spread across multiple nations - many of them with a language different from the nation(s) next to them. In the United States - regardless of where you live in the US - if you wish to visit the Grand Canyon, the Golden Gate Bridge, the White House, the Rocky Mountains, the Hawaiian Islands, the glaciers of Alaska, Mardi Gras in New Orleans, Miami Beach, Las Vegas, the Statue of Liberty, the United Nations, etc. you can cross multiple time zones to visit these sites and NEVER have to worry about dealing with a different language. Hardly an incentive to learn a foreign language. -- When an American couple wait their whole lives for a "once in a lifetime" trip to Europe, it is often a tour package involving multiple countries in just a few days - rarely to just one nation with one language. Since English is one of the official languages of the EU, most tourist locations speak English, and those Americans will spend no more than 5-10 days on the Continent (only one or two days in any given country), it is hardly an incentive to spend years becoming fluent in any specific language. -- Americans can travel to just about any famous site in the world (the Pyramids of Egypt or Mexico, the Louvre, the Great Wall, the Canals of Venice, etc. etc. etc.) and will be greated by people speaking English. Again, since they are visiting and not planning on staying, there is little incentive to become fluent in any specific language. So it comes down to this: If there is no desire and no real incentive for millions of Americans living an ocean away from the majority of foreign languages in this world to learn a foreign language, others (including fellow Americans) are in no position to criticize them. We all come to this site because many of us have a larger-than-life interest in languages. The titles of many of the topics we have here show our interest go above and beyond the interest of most others. That makes this web site no different than web sites that celebrate sky diving or stamp collecting or knitting or electronic gaming. Just because people don't have an interest in those hobbies does not mean there is something wrong with them or that they are lacking compared to those whoe immerse themelves in those activities. I have lived in four different countries (three in Europe and one in the Middle East). I have visited or vacatoned in a dozen more. That has helped stir a passion for other cultures and languages. But this life, while it may be common for people in Europe, is not typical for most Americans. The Atlantic and Pacific see to that. It is a lot easier for a Dane to road trip to the Czeh Republic to practice his Czech or a Pole to road trip to France to practice his French than it is for an American to cross the Atlantic to polish up on his German or Italian. 17 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| tennisfan Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 5360 days ago 130 posts - 247 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, Spanish Studies: German | Message 28 of 34 12 January 2013 at 8:48pm | IP Logged | ||
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That's one of the best posts I've read on HTLAL, Presidio. Brilliant, brilliant post.
1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Julie Heptaglot Senior Member PolandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6903 days ago 1251 posts - 1733 votes 5 sounds Speaks: Polish*, EnglishB2, GermanC2, SpanishB2, Dutch, Swedish, French | Message 29 of 34 12 January 2013 at 10:16pm | IP Logged | ||
I agree, a brilliant post, Presidio!
Even in Europe, where the distances are so short and it's relative;y easy to go practice languages, there are a lot of people who don't feel motivated to learn other languages than English. Some of them speak great English and could probably learn quite easily other languages, brush up what they were taught in school etc. But they don't, and there is nothing wrong about it, they just have other interests. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6597 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 30 of 34 12 January 2013 at 10:45pm | IP Logged | ||
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I've just had a roughly 24h-long train trip from Poland. It's not as easy as it seems.
2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| beano Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4622 days ago 1049 posts - 2152 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Russian, Serbian, Hungarian | Message 31 of 34 12 January 2013 at 10:51pm | IP Logged | ||
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I'm sure if you go to states like Texas, Florida and New Mexico, you will find plenty non-hispanic Americans
who can speak Spanish, which has obvious uses in that part of the USA. People are the same all over the world, they will gravitate towards the languages they perceive to be of greatest practical use, a handful of language nerds being the exception. Edited by beano on 12 January 2013 at 10:52pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| fnord Triglot Groupie Switzerland Joined 5033 days ago 71 posts - 124 votes Speaks: German*, Swiss-German, English Studies: Luxembourgish, Dutch | Message 32 of 34 15 January 2013 at 4:58am | IP Logged | ||
So true! And I think that's one of the reasons Americans many zero in on Americans. As somebody said on this thread before, I certainly do not expect tourists on a multi country trip around Europe to learn the native languages. Not even phrases. I certainly know some Americans who speak a foreign language very well. I've certainly witnessed some American expats at least making an effort. And I am certainly no stickler for anyone having to use the local language in a conversation, no matter how long he has been living in that country, when using a foreign language makes things easier. Yet there is one thing, I observe again and again: I work in a retail job in (German-speaking) Switzerland. We see a fair share of foreign speakers in our store, some of them not being fluent in German. Maybe not every day, but still quite regularly. This includes expats as well as tourists. Quick breakdown of their language use when entering our store: Virtually every Dutch speaker just proceeds to use German in addressing sales people and inquiring about products. Some of the Italians politely ask whether there's a sales person speaking Italian. A few of the Spanish speakers ask for Spanish (one colleague in particular "looks" like he speaks Spanish - and he does). Most of the Asians ask for English, some try broken German or English (unable to hold a conversation in either). The Russians / Eastern Europeans: maybe half of them speak German (and many speak it quite well!), half of them ask for English. Most of the Nordic people ask whether the sales person speaks English, though some are able to speak German and will just use it. The French speakers always politely ask whether one understands/speaks French - or English, as, contrary to popular prejudice, surprisingly many of them speak English very well and will just use it - but this might be a typical Expat thing, due to company use. Even the French-speaking Swiss (French being a national language taught in school, mind you) always ask! I usually deny having even the slightest (passive) knowledge of French, though. The particular danger with them seems to be that, once you affirm knowing even "just a little" French, they go on quite fast, with little accommodation in their speech. Unlike the Brits, which mostly do accommodate their speech (speak slowly, received pronunciation) unless they clearly perceive they don't have to. And virtually all of them starts by asking the sales person whether he speaks English. Of all the people who come to our store, it's (almost) always Americans who will just start firing off in English without bothering to ask whether others speak it, brazenly assuming* that everyone speaks English. And yes, they often lack accommodation, too. I'm not saying every American does this, but it's almost always the Americans who don't ask whether one speaks English. In fact, somebody not asking whether the other speaks the own foreign language, has become a clear indicator for me for someone being American. * I personally don't mind and enmbrace every opportunity to practice my own English. But some of my colleagues aren't as proficient to handle everything in English. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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