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The Sentence Method | ||
Tags: 10000 sentences | Flash cards | Learning Technique/Method | Vocabulary learning | Japanese | German | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6638 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes  Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 25 of 27 18 April 2007 at 8:56am | IP Logged | ||
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I fully agree with Furrykef: yes! you have to know that the Spanish construction is different from the English counterpart. It reminds me of the use of texts with translations, - the translation has to follow the rules of its own language, and therefore it is a matter of sheer luck if any passage in it has a structure remotely analoguous to the original. Furthermore you have no garantee at all that a sentence with another XXX also has the same structure as the first sentence, - take for instance the use or not of "a" with direct objects in Spanish, based on their being animate or inanimate. You can't see any hint of that in the English translation.
Edited by Iversen on 18 April 2007 at 8:57am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| furrykef Senior Member United States furrykef.com/ Joined 6407 days ago 681 posts - 862 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Japanese, Latin, Italian | Message 26 of 27 18 April 2007 at 4:30pm | IP Logged | ||
In theory, you don't need the details. I'm sure some people can and do learn all the grammar this way. If you can, more power to you! :) But I'm certainly glad that I have a grasp of the underlying grammar. We never studied grammar when I learned Spanish in high school (except for very simple conjugation tables), and I suffered terribly. When I picked up Spanish again last summer (a few years later), I started studying the grammar, and suddenly I began to understand how it all works. By understanding the underlying grammar, the sentence is easier to remember (for me) and more easily adaptable. For instance, I know that the sentence literally means "The window broke itself", and this odd phrasing is used because it marks a form of the passive voice, rather than, say, being some kind of oddity specific to the verb romper. I also know that one could say "La ventana se rompió", where the subject comes first, which has the same literal meaning but a difference in emphasis (the emphasis is now on the window itself and not on breaking it). Now I have an idea of when to use this kind of "se" construction and when to put the subject after the verb, which easily becomes clear upon looking at examples. Of course, you don't need all the underlying grammatical logic to go through your head when you actually read or say sentences like these. Ideally, the correct sentences should just occur to you (although knowing the rules can help when that does fail). But I think this understanding can help in actually getting to that point. The pattern itself is the most important thing, but it's important to understand what the pattern itself actually is, and understanding the "components" of the pattern can't hurt, either. :) By the way, "Se rompió la ventana" -- a sentence that would have seemed alien to me in high school -- now sounds like a perfectly natural sentence to me. That makes me beam with pride, because that means I must be doing something right. :) - Kef 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Jeffers Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4844 days ago 2151 posts - 3960 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Hindi, Ancient Greek, French, Sanskrit, German | Message 27 of 27 19 June 2011 at 8:08pm | IP Logged | ||
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I have to disagree somewhat with Iversen when he says:
"I'm sceptical about a beginner's ability to infer anything useful about grammar or semantics from a text that he or she barely can understand." Well, I agree if they can barely understand the sentence it doesn't do them much good. However, model sentences can be very helpful to the beginner. I am learning French with my son, and we are using a book which asks you to memorize 10 sentences and a mini paragraph each chapter you study. The first sentence is, "J’étais trois ans à New York." This sentence is, of course, ridiculously simple. However, when I later need to learn the verb forms that include "J’étais" (and I don't yet know what that is!), I will already have a knowledge of several of the forms. Beyond the textbook I'm using, in other languages, I have spent a long time learning verb declensions, but still struggle to reproduce them, let alone use them. But if instead of learning a list of verb forms, I memorized a model sentence for each form, I think I will have improved retention, as well as improved ability to use the forms. I have ordered a French verb book, and hope to trial this method. This is somewhat different from the method as some people have described it. If I memorize sentences pulled out of a novel, then I think Iveson is correct that a beginner would have difficulty working out the grammar. But if you initially choose model sentences illustrating a specific point, the sentence should improve retention over trying to memorize the point in isolation. Besides this, as someone mentioned, I think learning common aphorisms, quotes from famous speakers, and so on can be quite handy when you get into the intermediate stages. I am able to get smiles out of Hindi speakers whenever I ask, "कितने आदमी थे?" (Kitne aadmi the?). 1 person has voted this message useful |
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