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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6702 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes  Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 9 of 22 19 November 2009 at 9:01pm | IP Logged | ||
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I have noticed that the main popular science magazines in Europa have become international in the sense that the same articles are found in parallel magazines in several languages. For instance we have Illustreret Videnskab in Danish, Illustrerad Vetenskap in Swedish and Lifandi Visindi in Icelandic. However the content of these magazines in a certain month is not the same, so they are not simply translated from A to Z. There are other series: for instance I recently bought 3 science mags in Greece, all with English titles, but written in Greek (though with very little specifically Greek content). I also found one of these. Focus, in Italian from the same month, but with a completely different set of articles - which is a positive sign,, because it points to some editorial freedom in the different countries.
All this is basically pointing in the same direction: uniformity. You can buy the big American magazines in more places than those in the local languages, and you can often find 'national' versions of international publications more easily than independent mags. For instance the editions in different languages of National Geographic are among those that are easiest to find in the shops, often in the original English version. In some countries it is actually difficult to find anything written in those countries and in the local languages on the shelves. This depressing situation is eerily reminiscent of the movie situation and the situation in the music industry: big American blockbusters and ditto popstars dominate the market, and the fans simply don't care. Edited by Iversen on 20 November 2009 at 1:29am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Gusutafu Senior Member Sweden Joined 5520 days ago 655 posts - 1039 votes Speaks: Swedish* | Message 10 of 22 19 November 2009 at 9:07pm | IP Logged | ||
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Not to mention the extinction of local newspapers. Soon all remaining newspapers will be owned by a handful of publishers.
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| cordelia0507 Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5837 days ago 1473 posts - 2176 votes Speaks: Swedish* Studies: German, Russian | Message 11 of 22 19 November 2009 at 10:12pm | IP Logged | ||
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As somebody who lives in the UK and also reads Scandinavian publications I have to back up what Iversen just said.
I tend to see articles in Swedish professional IT magazines a month or two after I first read about the phenomenon in UK/US publications. Several times it has been completely obvious that the Swedish article was nothing more than a translation of an article that I'd already read -- with a few references to local experts thrown in at the end for good measure... to "localise" the article. But the same diagrams are there and they don't even bother translating the text in the graphics. Agree, very depressing.. Frankly I rarely read the Scandinavian publications for this reason. I don't think the state of things are QUITE as bad in Germany, France and other larger countries. In Sweden, due to the fact that most peoples strongest foreign language is English, it tends to be the English publications that are recycled. I guess there is still original research carried out and documented in German / French initially. In the Swedish scenario it would be marginally (but not much) better if there was AT LEAST better representation of material from non-English speaking countries. But due to the bias caused by the leading position of English -- what the Swedish readers get is an old, translated article... 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
 meramarina Diglot Moderator United States Joined 5966 days ago 1341 posts - 2303 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: German, Italian, French Personal Language Map | Message 12 of 22 19 November 2009 at 10:15pm | IP Logged | ||
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I noticed the "American" sense in the magazines I purchased in Germany. Other than being written in German, there was no big difference from anything I could find here.
Are there small, independent presses publishing unusual material in Europe? There are many here, but their works can be hard to find. The giant chain bookstores have taken over this country. I was very unhappy recently to see the science section in my local store reduced to about half of what it once was. Anyway, I use the newspaper/internet articles about science to support my language learning. For now I have to read the more difficult material in English. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| guesto Groupie Australia Joined 5740 days ago 76 posts - 118 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Italian, Spanish | Message 13 of 22 19 November 2009 at 11:23pm | IP Logged | ||
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Well, I think it's a good thing that there is a lingua franca. Science wouldn't advance if people couldn't communicate in one language. Linguistic diversity is good, but at the end of the day these people are scientists and they would rather advance science and learn about science than spend all their time translating and learning different languages. As long as everyone has the opportunity to learn the lingua franca to a sufficient level, it shouldn't be a problem...
It's not a new thing either. Science has always had a lingua franca or a few main languages (Latin, then French, German and now English). There are so many instances in history where scientists from different countries have collaborated and drawn upon work from people in other countries by means of a lingua franca that we would probably wouldn't even be here on this forum if they'd all stuck to their own language... There are also cases where people have published ground-breaking work in relatively unknown languages and as a result their work went for years without being noticed. In the end someone else would discover the same thing and get their name pegged to it even though the guy in the obscure language was first. An example of this is so called "Argand diagrams". They were first described by Wessel, but are named after Argand simply because he published in French and Wessel published in Danish. Besides, imagine carrying out a large-scale international project like the LHC without a common language. It would just be impossible! Edited by guesto on 19 November 2009 at 11:40pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| mrxdsm Newbie United Kingdom Joined 5524 days ago 1 posts - 1 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Polish | Message 14 of 22 19 November 2009 at 11:29pm | IP Logged | ||
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Over the past couple of years I have spent time working and studying in academic institutions in both the UK and in Europe. Although the vast majority of primary scientific literature is published in English, I don’t think this is such a bad thing. By publishing in English, researchers are able to reach a much wider audience than would otherwise be possible. Much of the research that I am currently interested in has been published by a group in Japan. Had this work been published in Japanese I certainly would not have read it.
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| cordelia0507 Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5837 days ago 1473 posts - 2176 votes Speaks: Swedish* Studies: German, Russian | Message 15 of 22 19 November 2009 at 11:52pm | IP Logged | ||
....and had it been your language that was being gradually sidelined while you struggled to write scientific texts in another language..... well, you probably wouldn't see it from that angle.... PS - nothing personal at all mrxdsm, it's just that it looks different from the other side and that's what I'm trying to convey. Quite a lot of academic material written in English by non-native speakers leave A LOT to be desired. It may be gramatically more or less correct but it's still has an awkwardness to the language that isn't there in equivalent texts by native speakers. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Captain Haddock Diglot Senior Member Japan kanjicabinet.tumblr. Joined 6767 days ago 2282 posts - 2814 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: French, Korean, Ancient Greek | Message 16 of 22 20 November 2009 at 3:52am | IP Logged | ||
I have to disagree that this is a good thing. General education and scientific advancement exploded when scientists (beginning with Anton van Leeowenhoek, who was unable to attend university and learn Latin) began writing in their own languages instead of Latin, making science accessible to everyone. If English replaces national languages for science and scientific publishing, it will mark a return to the Medieval days where society is split between the elite, who speak the right language and can easily get involved in science, and the general public who face an extra hurdle. This has always been the case in numerous ex-colonial countries, where dependence on a foreign language for science and education keeps most people backward and illiterate — and the local elite generally like it that way. Science needs to go the other way. Get people publishing more not just in Swedish and Greek, but in Yoruba and Tamil. Let people be eloquent and articulate and learned in their mother tongues. Turn the global conversation into a symphony. The translation industry can more than handle it, and maybe we'll have to put up with fewer unintelligible broken-English papers and see an increase in language learning and communication as a side benefit. 3 persons have voted this message useful |
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