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Courses for Latin American Spanish | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Programs, Books & Tapes |  | |
| Random review Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5781 days ago 781 posts - 1310 votes  Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Portuguese, Mandarin, Yiddish, German | Message 25 of 42 24 June 2012 at 3:36pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I have quite odd taste (I don't really enjoy telenovelas much, for instance, and I
guess I like quite childish stuff sometimes) yet without really having to look that far I have found tons of stuff I really enjoy in the dialects of Spain and Mexico, they just produce so much stuff! Only last night I found two hilarious series (well, to be honest I've only watched a few episodes of each so far, but so far so funny!) of videos on youtube: Cositas de niñas (seems like Mexican to me) and "Curso dandalu" (Spanish, and had me in tears it's that funny). I've also found a bit of stuff for Argentinian Spanish. So far, though, I haven't managed to find anything I enjoy that much for other dialects, I'm sure there's great stuff out there, but it's harder to for me find as they don't seem to produce as much). I'd particularly like some practice with Columbian and Cuban Spanish. Can anyone recommend anything (especially podcasts or TV series)? EDIT: I know that many (most?) Latin Americans speakers prefer listening to what they call "neutral" over Spanish of Spain, but I've got to say that when it reaches the point that Pocoyo is being dubbed I think that this has as much to do with political sensibilities as with the centralisation of the entertainment industry. Speaking personally I don't really like so-called "nuetral Spanish" very much, I much prefer the character which real dialects have, though I can see the point in it for dubbing programs not originally in Spanish. Edited by Random review on 24 June 2012 at 5:34pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| stelingo Hexaglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5830 days ago 722 posts - 1076 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese, French, German, Italian Studies: Russian, Czech, Polish, Greek, Mandarin | Message 26 of 42 24 June 2012 at 3:56pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Yes, i was referring to Brazil, and I wrote at least 180 million as I am well aware of other non Spanish speaking people in Latin America. I am also aware of what this thread is about, I have access to plenty Latin American media through the internet. Try and avoid making over generalisations in future, and also assumptions about other posters. Edited by stelingo on 24 June 2012 at 8:42pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Gala Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 4548 days ago 229 posts - 421 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Italian | Message 27 of 42 24 June 2012 at 8:34pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
It really doesn't seem as though you closely read my post. It dealt not with how neutral (or not) the various speech-patterns of the majority of Mexicans are (and they are varied, so one can't simply call them all "Mexican Spanish") nor with how much prestige they do or don't have. It deals rather with the fact that the Mexican version of standard/neutral Spanish is highly familiar (through much media exposure) and comprehensible to people throughout Hispanoamérica. Mexican media is widely disseminated throughout all of Spanish-speaking South America and the Caribbean as well as Central America. Edited by Gala on 24 June 2012 at 10:39pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Gala Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 4548 days ago 229 posts - 421 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Italian | Message 28 of 42 24 June 2012 at 8:56pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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EDIT: I know that many (most?) Latin Americans speakers prefer listening to what they
call "neutral" over Spanish of Spain, but I've got to say that when it reaches the point that Pocoyo is being dubbed I think that this has as much to do with political sensibilities as with the centralisation of the entertainment industry. Speaking personally I don't really like so-called "nuetral Spanish" very much, I much prefer the character which real dialects have, though I can see the point in it for dubbing programs not originally in Spanish.[/QUOTE] As far as wider considerations go, I'm not necessarily an advocate of neutral Spanish. But since it already exists and strictly in terms of L2, I think it makes sense for non-native speakers to emulate it. I'm sure native speakers in, let's say, Ecuador would better understand (and rather listen to) a foreigner that speaks a neutral variety with some (large or small, but generally inevitable) degree of interference from their native accent than if that same foreigner had compounded the problem by having striven for, let's say, a "real dialect" of Cuba (an admittedly extreme example, but you see the point.) If, on the other hand, one is actually going to be living among or mainly interacting with a particular group of hispanohablantes, then I think their variety of Spanish would clearly be the best one to mimic. EDIT:As far as dubbing films or programs from Spain into neutral LA Spanish, at least some hispanoamericanos genuinely have a hard time understanding the Peninsular accents and some of the lexicon. They've told me so, and I don't doubt it. I know I certainly do (although I admittedly haven't had much exposure to Peninsular, except through literature.) It's analogous to the fact that many in the States have a hard time with British media. Edited by Gala on 24 June 2012 at 9:22pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Random review Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5781 days ago 781 posts - 1310 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Portuguese, Mandarin, Yiddish, German | Message 29 of 42 25 June 2012 at 12:19am | IP Logged | ||||||||
Yes, good point.
Yes, but that's a really silly self-perpetuating situation! We in the UK have no trouble whatsoever with US films because we watch them all the time. Why do some people in Latin America have trouble with Spanish media? Because they have no exposure. Why do they have no exposure? because they have difficulty understanding it. Sometimes it reaches ridiculous extremes: trust me, I can't imagine anyone in Latin America struggling to understand Pocoyo! With some languages one variety has overwhelming numbers (e.g. US English or Brazilian Portuguese), but this isn't the case with Spanish. IMO Spanish is emphatically not split between Latin America and Spain (I think you'll agree about that). If I had to have a go at splitting Spanish into major varieties (something I'm absolutely not qualified to do) I'd hazard the following: 1) Most of Mexico and Central America. 2) Atlantic coast and Carribean. 3) Most of Spain. 4) Andalusia. 5) Inland South America. 6) Southern Cone. Now I know that this is not a great list and I bet that most people reading this will disagree with it, but here's the rub: I bet you want to add more distinctions rather than less!!!!! Given that, isn't it crazy that there are places online where arguments get really nasty between Spaniards and Latin Americans over which version is better?! I know there are economic reasons for centralising the entertainment industry, but I think a big part of this problem is political. On another thread someone recommended a Guatemalan film (voces inocentes) and I'd like to quote a brilliant comment someone left under the youtube video of that film: "Apenas era una adolescente, recuerdo esta guerra, a veces lloraba cuando lo veia en las noticias. Me molesta y me duele cada vez que leo los comentarios en youtube sobre el acento, da igual de donde sea el acento, dejemos estas estupideces a un lado que al final lo unico que conseguimos es engordar a los politicos que son los primeros que nos intentan desunir. No tenemos la culpa de lo que hicieron nuestros gobernantes hace 500 años ni tampoco de lo que hacen hoy en dia. Un abrazo desde España" I suppose I have to translate that, here's my best shot at a not too literal translation (but corrections gratefully recieved): I remember this war from when I was just a teenager, I sometimes cried when I saw it on the news. It annoys me and hurts me every time I read comments about accent on youtube- it doesn't matter where your accent is from, let's leave all that stupidity behind because in the end all we achieve is for the politicians to grow fat off of it- they're the first ones to try and disunite us. What our rulers did 500 years ago is not our fault and neither is what they do today. Hugs from Spain. Edited by Random review on 25 June 2012 at 12:39am 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Medulin Tetraglot Senior Member Croatia Joined 4666 days ago 1199 posts - 2192 votes Speaks: Croatian*, English, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Norwegian, Hindi, Nepali | Message 30 of 42 25 June 2012 at 1:47pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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The ''''importance'' of neutral Spanish is over estimated.
At least in Argentina and Uruguay, the movies are shown with subtitles in the porteño variant, or are dubbed into this variant. On DVDs, many times you have options: Spanish (Mexico), Spanish (Neutral), Spanish (Argentina). So, this means people prefer to watch DVD in a localized version of their Spanish, instead of ''neutral'' Spanish. ''Neutral Latin American'' Spanish tends to be poor, when it comes to vocabulary since it has to avoid the words which are not uniform, for example, the word GUAPO is avoided since it means HANDSOME in Mexico, but COCKY or A BULLY in Cuba and Southern cone. Edited by Medulin on 25 June 2012 at 1:48pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Random review Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5781 days ago 781 posts - 1310 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Portuguese, Mandarin, Yiddish, German | Message 31 of 42 25 June 2012 at 4:38pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Speaking as someone so nerdy I actually often watch dubbed US programs (especially the Simpsons) twice, once in Spanish of Spain and once in neutral, in order to compare them I'd love to know where to find DVDs like that!
I've got to admit, I don't like it very much, though I see the point made by Gala above about learners. It's very easy to understand (I can't recall the last time I heard something in neutral I didn't understand- not the case with any real dialect even Spain's) but not only do I think it lacks character, I also feel it lacks emotional expression and as such I think programs dubbed into neutral lose an awful lot more than necessary of what makes them compelling in English. It's like the characters are living in this strange, emotionally flattened half-world, if you get what I mean. For a long time I assumed I didn't like Mexican Spanish until I actually started watching some genuine Mexican Spanish, which turned out (as you obviously know) to be just as rich and full of character as Spanish of Spain. Edited by Random review on 25 June 2012 at 4:49pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Gala Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 4548 days ago 229 posts - 421 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Italian | Message 32 of 42 25 June 2012 at 10:51pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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[QUOTE=Random review] I'd particularly like some practice with Columbian
and Cuban Spanish. Can anyone recommend anything (especially podcasts or TV series)? For Colombian, I would recommend that you check out the t-novelas made by Venevision studios (based in Colombia), but you mentioned that you don't much like the genre. Also not all of the actors in their series will be Colombians, and many of the actors speak in a somewhat neutralized way. Actually, upon further thought, I think Venevision makes other types of shows. You might want to check out their website and maybe the Wikipedia article about them to see if you can glean some titles that interest you. If they make comedies I imagine that they'd be rich in dialectical speech. (EDIT: I was wrong, Venevision is Venezuelan. They use a lot of Colombian actors though, and filmed both of their novelas that I watched in Colombia, which is what confused me.) My main exposure to Cuban has been through a Miami-based talk show (shown on Univisión in the US) called 'Casos de Familia.' The format is the usual sort of thing with a group of people on stage (usually related to each other) that have some sort of personal issue going on among them that they expose to the host and audience. It's dumb and exploitative (although not nearly as bad as the US English-language equivalents,) but often funny. The host is Mexican-American, the guests are usually Cuban-Americans, but even when they aren't they often talk like they are because they generally live in Miami. I imagine you've heard how prominent Spanish is in Miami; it is so to the point that a person could easily go through life there without needing to speak English more than occasionally (except while in school, but even there it's bilingual.) You have a definite point about the dubbing just creating/perpetuating the inability to understand the Peninsular way of speaking. I'm able to understand UK productions much better than most in the US, simply because I grew up in a household where they were on regularly (PBS.) I've lost some of this ability now, though......from listening to so much Spanish! Edited by Gala on 26 June 2012 at 4:33am 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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