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Courses for Latin American Spanish | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Programs, Books & Tapes |  | |
| Gala Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 4548 days ago 229 posts - 421 votes  Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Italian | Message 33 of 42 25 June 2012 at 11:30pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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I guess when I was writing about neutral Spanish, I really was thinking more of what
you might call "neutralized" or quasi-neutral(the way many actors, broadcasters, politicians etc. speak) rather than the full-on neutral of the voice-actors used for dubbing, or that of the speakers used in the Latin American Pimsleur course. I don't like full-on neutral either. I haven't watched many dubbed productions, but when I have I've noticed the paucity of the lexicon. If the OP is still reading this, I can only echo the previous suggestions of the Living Language Ultimate Spanish series, and FSI Basic. The audio of LLUS has speakers with a variety of acentos latinomericanos (and, in I think just one segment, a Spaniard.) Their way of speaking is somewhat "neutralized," that is their regional accents, while recognizable, aren't heavy. The FSI speakers, while for the most part recognizably Mexican, speak a quasi-neutral Spanish that sounds quite different (and would be quite comprehensible to most hispanoamericanos) than most of what you would hear on the streets in any part of Mexico, now or in the era in which it was made (mid- 60's, I think.) In other words, you don't need to worry about absorbing a heavy Mexican accent or picking up glaring mexicanismos like "quiubo" or "¡órale!" Edited by Gala on 25 June 2012 at 11:52pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| COF Senior Member United States Joined 5829 days ago 262 posts - 354 votes Speaks: English* | Message 34 of 42 26 June 2012 at 12:34pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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Thanks for the suggestion. Is there a course that focuses solely on either Mexican Spanish or Argentine Spanish, or is that being too specific?
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| Medulin Tetraglot Senior Member Croatia Joined 4666 days ago 1199 posts - 2192 votes Speaks: Croatian*, English, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Norwegian, Hindi, Nepali | Message 35 of 42 26 June 2012 at 4:20pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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PLATIQUEMOS sounds like a Mexican course, by looking at the name of it (the verb PLATICAR is not used outside Mexico and Central America). ;)
I liked Colloquial Spanish 2 (Latin America), it explains all major varieties of Latin American Spanish, without any pretensions of being ''neutral''. Edited by Medulin on 26 June 2012 at 4:36pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Gala Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 4548 days ago 229 posts - 421 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Italian | Message 36 of 42 26 June 2012 at 10:09pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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Platiquemos is FSI Basic with minor alterations/updates and remastered audio. I read
that about 80% of it is identical. It has 8 levels and FSI 4, but that is only because they split each FSI level in two. Platiquemos is expensive, FSI is free to download here: http://fsi-language-courses.org/Content.php?page=Spanish%20B asic The texts are PDF downloads that would use a tremendous amount of paper and ink to print out. I downloaded them, but gave up on printing them out after I saw how much paper it took to print out just part of one level. Now, when I use the text (I usually just use the audio) I just bring it up on the computer and look over the section corresponding to the audio unit I'm working on. The late creator of Platiquemos was in the Foreign Service and spent many years living in Mexico and other LA countries...I don't remember which. FSI (and I'm sure Platiquemos) is the most Mexican of any comprehensive courses that I know of. If you want to learn some very idiomatic Mexican Spanish vocabulary, expressions and slang check out the book The Street-wise Spanish Survival Guide by Eleanor Hamer & Fernando Díez de Urdanivia. It focuses almost entirely on Mexican usage; I don't understand why they didn't title it in a way that made that clear. Try watching telenovelas made by Televisa studios in Mexico (they show them on Univisión in the US). Many of them tend to use actors that speak quasi-neutral (in accent, they still use Mexican vocabulary if not slang) for the main characters, but there are usually a fair amount of characters speaking dialectically too. For Argentinian, I have no idea, but I think there's a thread going on about that now with 'Rioplatense' (the main variety of Argentinian Spanish) in the title. You may want to consider the fact that that dialect is one of the the most idiosyncratic of all. It's highly influenced by Italian (in accent and vocabulary)and has a number of grammatical peculiarities as well. There aren't many Argentinian immigrants in the US, either. EDIT: I don't know how far along you are in your studies, but if you're anywhere from beginner to mid-intermediate the best thing would be to simply concentrate on Spanish and not worry overmuch about the regional differences. Despite these, it is one language and there's plenty to learn that is applicable everywhere. Since you're in the US, a general Latin American emphasis would probably still be advisable. Living Language Ultimate and Destinos still apply, but if you're a beginner forget about The Street-wise Spanish book and maybe hold off a bit on FSI. Edited by Gala on 26 June 2012 at 10:42pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Random review Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5781 days ago 781 posts - 1310 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Portuguese, Mandarin, Yiddish, German | Message 37 of 42 27 June 2012 at 1:52am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
Thanks for the tip, I had a look, so far I've seen a program of repetitive comedy sketches called "a que te ríes!" It made me laugh and I actually like the fact that it's the same sketches over and over with minor variations (I got a lot of learning with "El chavo del ocho" that way), but I'm not sure I COULD watch it over and over again as so far I find the characters rather unlikeable (and in one sketch actually repugnant). I'm sure at some point, though, I'll find something I enjoy there, thanks.
Oh no! Thanks, I appreciate your help but I'd rather actually quit learning Spanish than watch that kind of program (unless it's VERY different from the kind I'm familiar with in English), I don't like soaps but I once did (as a teenager) and have no issues with them but THAT kind of show really upsets me. I remember once hating a job because I couldn't avoid catching snippets of Jeremy Kyle whilst cleaning tables. It's not just purely that I disagree with the implicit view of the world and of poor people these shows promote (I disagree with the right wing political views which were allegedly held by Cantinflas, but that doesn't stop me respecting them and liking him as a comedian) it's that they make me physically sick as I know and to some extent have shared the suffering that is being exploited and ridiculed in these programs and cannot understand how these people that make them can sleep at night. Sorry to "go off on one" I do appreciate your advice, but (as you can see from my little rant) even the thought of these shows gets me upset.
My life would be *so* much poorer if I couldn't follow US English in films, TV series and music, I couldn't even imagine it. Edited by Random review on 27 June 2012 at 1:57am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Gala Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 4548 days ago 229 posts - 421 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Italian | Message 38 of 42 27 June 2012 at 8:27pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
Sounds like Casos de Familia is definitely out then; it's not so very different than equivalent shows in English. It really is an awful show (like all of its kind), but I tend to put up with a lot of things in Spanish that I never would in English. I watch it now and then only because it features the speech of non-actors/professional speakers and that speech is so often in an argot that I otherwise get virtually no exposure to. Those things combined with the fact that the guests tend to shout and talk over each other really challenge my listening comprehension. It has upset me at times, though. I just threw it out there in case you were willing to go to extreme lengths to hear Cuban Spanish! 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Random review Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5781 days ago 781 posts - 1310 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Portuguese, Mandarin, Yiddish, German | Message 39 of 42 28 June 2012 at 1:54am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
This is true, I think it might be a very useful tip for others reading this thread who can watch that kind of thing. As you say, it's hard to think where else you could get such exposure to authentic colloquial speech patterns.
I know what you mean, and sometimes this even pays off, years ago I came across a Laura Estivel book for one pound ninety-nine in a charity shop. I would never read such a thing in English because it was obviously a book written for women, but given the shortage of Spanish reading material in the UK (outside of London) and the price I bought it and read it. I was right, it WAS written for women...but to my surprise I really rather enjoyed it.
Slightly off-topic, but I want to make a distinction between Don Casteel, who made Platiquemos, and those unscrupulous people making money selling FSI Spanish for a lot of money to people who don't know they can get it free and legally online. I spent quite a bit of money on Platiquemos and never regretted it. Don Casteel re-recorded much of the audio at what he considered a more natural pace, he added English prompts to help learn the dialogues, some songs and cultural notes and even altered a few things (one of the FSI characters swaps gender, for instance). Importantly he did all this at a time when FSI Spanish Basic wasn't available for free online. He was a member of this forum and, when he learned about it, totally applauded the guys who made all these FSI courses available for free online. Edited by Random review on 28 June 2012 at 2:23am 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Gala Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 4548 days ago 229 posts - 421 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Italian | Message 40 of 42 28 June 2012 at 1:05pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
Yes, I hope it will be useful to someone. I used to watch it regularly but did get burnt out on it after awhile. I also decided that the Cuban argot was not one of of my personal favorites, though it's definitely interesting and very distinctive. I've heard a few people that made it sound good.
You said something similar earlier in this thread. I was wondering about that and had a feeling that it wasn't quite that absolute. I was thinking that it was one of those words that may be much more used in certain regions, but is not exactly unheard of elsewhere. I confirmed this after looking it up in all 3 of my Spanish dictionaries (2 bilingual [1 being the Collins unabridged, which is British] and 1 monolingual) as well as the RAE online dictionary . Every one of these dictionaries is generally quite reliable as far as identifying regionalisms. Not one identified the plain old intransitive verb platicar as Mex. or C. Amer. or even L. American. Collins did identify its transitive use (used like decir) as Mexican. The RAE didn't, but didn't include this transitive use at all. One or more of the dictionaries specified Mex. and/or El Salv. for the words plática, platicadera and platicador. I don't doubt that it's used much more widely in North and Central America than elsewhere, and the finding that it has an extra transitive use and serves as a root- word for region-specific terms confirms that. But I think if the main verb was "not used" outside of that region, at least one of the dictionaries would have identified it accordingly. Edited by Gala on 28 June 2012 at 1:14pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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