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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| Tyr Senior Member Sweden Joined 5783 days ago 316 posts - 384 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: Swedish | Message 1 of 5 03 September 2012 at 7:16am | IP Logged |
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As I learn more Japanese I keep coming across multiple words meaning the same thing with no discernable nuanced difference. Which angers me.
One word in particular that seems to have a zillion versions is 'but'. At iirst I knew しかし but then learned でも. It was quite easy to understand here that shikashi was more formal and 'however'y whilst demo was a more relaxed 'but'. Now however けど is being added to the mix. And I hear of a だか too (though I've yet to encounter it myself). And others besides. Is there any difference in use between the different versions of but in Japanese? Why are there so many words for it? 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| kujichagulia Senior Member Japan Joined 4848 days ago 1031 posts - 1571 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Japanese, Portuguese | Message 2 of 5 03 September 2012 at 7:46am | IP Logged |
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I'm still working on the nuances as well, being a low intermediate Japanese speaker. The way I "feel" it, しかし is used to kind of change the subject when you've been talking about something for a little while, like however. けど is easy for me to understand; you are connecting two clauses or sentences. For example: 大阪は暑いですけど、食べ物はおいしいよ。 (Osaka is hot, but the food is delicious.) To me, でも sounds like you add on a quick "on the other hand" opinion when talking about something. Maybe the more advanced speakers can clarify what I just said.
I have never heard だか used as "but"; I'll have to research that. If you are having trouble with those, I guess I shouldn't mention けれども and それでも and, of course, が as other "but" options. :) 3 persons have voted this message useful | |
| atama warui Triglot Senior Member Japan Joined 4702 days ago 594 posts - 985 votes Speaks: German*, English, Japanese | Message 3 of 5 03 September 2012 at 8:08am | IP Logged |
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しかし is pretty stiff. でも is not exactly "but", but can be used like that and is usually translated into that. け（れ）ど（も） is what you've been looking for. だが is the "connector" kuji talked about and also a kind of "..., however..." construction after a declarative statement.
今日、お寿司を食べました が あまり好きじゃありませんでした 今日、寿司を食った けど 好きじゃなかった 今日、寿司を食べました。 でも 好きじゃなかったんです。 だが is more of an "afterthought" and actually really が 今日、寿司を食べた。 だが。。。好きじゃなかったんだね けど < けれど < けれども are all the same version of "but" at different registers of speech. Then there's （な）のに, which you use to show contrast (you'd probably translate it as "despite"). 好きじゃない のに あなたのために何とか食べたん だけど 今度、食べさせるな！ だが 。。。まあ。。あなたの目を見ると、抵抗で きなくなるだろうなあ。。 それ でも、やっぱり食べたくない！ I'd recommend not to pay too much attention or to overthink the matter, as most of the time, でも and けど are exchangeable. PS: Not sure if it's me this forum bears a grudge against.. or the language. Either way, wish we had an admin here to look into bugs from time to time. Edited by atama warui on 03 September 2012 at 8:12am 3 persons have voted this message useful | |
| osoymar Tetraglot Pro Member United States Joined 4737 days ago 190 posts - 344 votes Speaks: English*, German, Portuguese, Japanese Studies: Spanish, French Personal Language Map | Message 4 of 5 05 September 2012 at 7:25pm | IP Logged |
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Great explanation, atama warui!
You'll also eventually come across ただし, which is a slightly more rarefied version of しかし. Atama mentioned this, but it bears repeating- が and けど come directly after a verb, as part of the same thought. If you're starting a new sentence you have to use だ or です, so: バスケできるけど上手じゃない。 → バス ケできる。だけど上手じゃない。 It's usually better to use the first pattern, but the second is helpful when you stumble midway through a sentence. Sometimes the second pattern is used without a "sentence break" in speech, it's ungrammatical and sounds "low" but it does happen. The same thing turns のに into なのに, although that doesn't get used as often. It's good to learn all of them passively, and if you're interested I would highly recommend Makino and Tsutsui's A Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar (as well as the Intermediate version, eventually). But for your own active use at an elementary level you can get away with けど、だけど and でも. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| atama warui Triglot Senior Member Japan Joined 4702 days ago 594 posts - 985 votes Speaks: German*, English, Japanese | Message 5 of 5 06 September 2012 at 7:33am | IP Logged |
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To complicate matters: You can put の as nominalizer and use だけど with i-adjectives or verbs. I demonstrated that above, but I guess that's a bit beyond the scope of this thread..
To keep it short, use けど in the middle of a sentence (だけど with na-adjectives/nouns, けど with i-adjectives/verbs), and でも at the start of a sentence. You can still expand from there, but this is pretty safe for starters. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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