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Should you learn slang? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| hrhenry Octoglot Senior Member United States languagehopper.blogs Joined 5130 days ago 1871 posts - 3642 votes  Speaks: English*, SpanishC2, ItalianC2, Norwegian, Catalan, Galician, Turkish, Portuguese Studies: Polish, Indonesian, Ojibwe | Message 9 of 51 21 November 2012 at 3:23pm | IP Logged | |||||
Feedback is how we know, or at least that's how I've learned to deal with it - both slang and curse words. Are we so afraid of making a mistake now that we're unwilling to take the risk of asking a native speaker (or peers if you live in the TL country) whether its use is warranted/acceptable or not? And knowing slang and curse words doesn't mean we have to use them. It's important to recognize them, though. 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4707 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 10 of 51 21 November 2012 at 3:25pm | IP Logged | |||||
I curse a lot more in Dutch than I do in English. That's one thing. For a second, cursing doesn't really bother me or strike me as hugely offensive (unless the curse is something genuinely directed at me). The most it might do is make me not feel I want to drink wine and eat caviar with that person often. Which doesn't make a lot of sense anyway because that is something I rarely do in general. I personally prefer it when people are not so uptight about these things because it means I can wind down and speak in a relaxed, informal manner which is much more conducive to positive opinions of people, and trust in general. And people say I speak quite formally so. And yes, you can make a "book cover" judgement from someone's speech but that doesn't mean you're right about it. In general, my rule is this: "Do not be too eager to deal out (death in) judgement, for even the very wise cannot see all ends." Which I also reinterpret to mean "Don't needlessly oppose something you have no experience with - it's only the experience that will count in forming your judgement". Edited by tarvos on 21 November 2012 at 3:29pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| iguanamon Pentaglot Senior Member Virgin Islands Speaks: Ladino Joined 5262 days ago 2241 posts - 6731 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese, Haitian Creole, Creole (French) | Message 11 of 51 21 November 2012 at 3:35pm | IP Logged | |||||
I agree with Josquin that it is important to know such language and when to use it, appropriately. What I must disagree with is this characterization of the US and Americans in general. "Washing children's mouths out with soap" is not typical of modern day parenting in the US and could/may even be considered to be child abuse today. Times have changed. "What other nation would *beep* offensive language on TV"- plenty! Ever been to the Middle East, Malaysia, Singapore or China? The US does not have a monopoly on "prudery". Back to the original topic, slang is very important in Brazilian Portuguese where the written language can differ quite dramatically from the spoken language. Lack of knowledge in this regard could leave a learner flabbergasted on the streets of Rio, Salvador or São Paulo. Some linguists even go as far to call Brazilian Portuguese "di-glossic". Brazilians will be the first to tell you that their language is Portuguese but would also agree that they definitely put their own stamp on the language colloquially. Avoid this colloquial language at your own risk, especially if you want to understand what is being said in Brazil. It is very important to learn, or at least be familiar with, slang in any language if you want to be complete in that language. I don't want to be only able to speak with and understand highly educated people when I visit a country. Edited by iguanamon on 21 November 2012 at 3:43pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Josquin Heptaglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4844 days ago 2266 posts - 3992 votes Speaks: German*, English, French, Latin, Italian, Russian, Swedish Studies: Japanese, Irish, Portuguese, Persian | Message 12 of 51 21 November 2012 at 3:58pm | IP Logged | |||||
Well, the daughter of the host family I stayed with twelve years ago told me that she had to wash out her mouth with soap herself because of using "inappropriate" language. So, these methods don't belong to a very distant past and I'm convinced there are still parents who practise them. But be that as it may. Of course, I'm not inferring that all Americans are uptight about swearing, but the tendency to stigmatize it as "offensive language" is higher than in European countries. Nota bene, I'm speaking about innocent curses and not downright insults. I didn't say the US had a monopoly on prudery, but among Western nations they are definitely at the top. I remember that time Janet Jacksons breast was exposed during the Super Bowl. I can imagine no other Western country where that would have been such a scandal. Sorry for going off-topic, but I think that this clearly shows how differently some societies treat certain issues. Using slang and "offensive" language may be one of them. While it would be totally acceptable to use a mild swear word in colloquial German, it might be an absolute taboo for an American. So, as I said: One should know slang, but one should also know when to use it. It's obviously better for a beginner not to use too much slang if he doesn't know what might be the reaction, but I don't see any problem for an advanced learner who knows what he's doing. Edited by Josquin on 21 November 2012 at 4:23pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| hrhenry Octoglot Senior Member United States languagehopper.blogs Joined 5130 days ago 1871 posts - 3642 votes Speaks: English*, SpanishC2, ItalianC2, Norwegian, Catalan, Galician, Turkish, Portuguese Studies: Polish, Indonesian, Ojibwe | Message 13 of 51 21 November 2012 at 4:23pm | IP Logged | |||||
I'm not so sure the two can be compared, even though language and "decency" are defined by the same entity in the US. As far as I know though, Canada and Australia both have a governing body that regulates what can be broadcast on TV/radio and what can't, and I've heard plenty of bleeping in programming from both countries, as well as programming from the UK (they don't have anything like the FCC/ACMA, do they?) In any case, I think it's more an Anglophone thing, rather than an American thing. R. == 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6597 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 14 of 51 21 November 2012 at 6:12pm | IP Logged | |||||
2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| geoffw Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 4688 days ago 1134 posts - 1865 votes Speaks: English*, German, Yiddish Studies: Modern Hebrew, French, Dutch, Italian, Russian | Message 15 of 51 21 November 2012 at 6:41pm | IP Logged | |||||
I don't think I disagree with you on the fundamental point, which is pretty much "when in Rome, do as the Romans do," and speak in the way that other people speak, to the best of your ability. Speaking on behalf of the supposed prude Americans, I would simply note that this is far more than a simple understanding of common linguistic patterns, but can also involve a complex tapestry of social norms and understandings. I have quite a few old friends, family members and acquaintances who, among themselves, generally, will speak in a "relaxed, informal manner" that includes quite a bit of "spicy" language (which actually loses its shock value very quickly once it becomes commonplace). I believe they are representative of much of the country, in this regard, and this is generally socially accepted. (When I was younger, this was how I spoke, as well.) Nowadays, however, for me personally it is quite rare for explicit vulgarity to be part of my lexicon, but more importantly, someone else using vulgarity of any sort, no matter how skillfully, usually has the exact OPPOSITE effect of making me feel relaxed and informal, because it instantly marks that person as being socially distant from me. If you're cursing, nowadays it might mean you're NOT "one of us." That's not to say that I'll be offended, or start clutching my pearls on the way to the fainting couch, just that it's not "building trust," etc. 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Betjeman Groupie Germany Joined 6143 days ago 85 posts - 204 votes Speaks: German* | Message 16 of 51 21 November 2012 at 7:10pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Here's a vote for the OP's initial message. I try to avoid profanity even in my mother tongue so why should
I start using it in foreign languages? Moreover, I always thought it awkward when a foreigner used swear words in my native language even if I would have accepted them in a native speakers speech. It is, of course, useful to know the dirty talk, but rather passively than actively. To be frank, I think swearing just conveys a lack of imagination. Being malicious is much more satisfying when done in a subtle manner and in polite linguistic disguise. Edited by Betjeman on 21 November 2012 at 7:10pm 4 persons have voted this message useful |
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