Being precise about fluency? (General discussion) Language Learning Forum

Being precise about fluency?
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Language Learning Forum : General discussion

48 messages over 6 pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next >>

DaraghM
Diglot
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Ireland
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Message 25 of 48

26 November 2012 at 3:03pm | IP Logged

While proficiency might be a more appropriate definition for discussing language capabilities, this forum, by design, has classed languages into Basic or Advanced Fluency. If you step through the language profiles it covers the four main proficiencies of reading, writing, listening and speaking, but the overall category is still labelled Fluency. Should the forum be redesigned to say 'proficiency' instead of 'fluency' ? Personally, I don't think so, as this may confuse rather than clarify the matter. People may assume they're more proficient than they are fluent.

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Iversen
Super Polyglot
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Message 26 of 48

26 November 2012 at 3:27pm | IP Logged

I may mean well, but in addition to that I also mean what I wrote. Once you can speak fluently you are fluent even if you make a lot of errors (as long as it can be recognized as the language you try to speak - otherwise you are a fluent speaker of nonsense). The remaining tasks for a fluent speaker is to bring the number of errors down and the quality of the things you say up, and that's proficiency.
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s_allard
Triglot
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Message 27 of 48

26 November 2012 at 3:41pm | IP Logged

Here are two different definitions of what is means to be a fluent speaker of a language:

Iversen wrote:

... Once you can speak fluently you are fluent even if you make a lot of errors (as long as it can be recognized as the language you try to speak - otherwise you are a fluent speaker of nonsense). The remaining tasks for a fluent speaker is to bring the number of errors down and the quality of the things you say up, and that's proficiency.

Solfrid Cristin wrote:

... In my book you are fluent when you can say anything you want with a clear and good
pronunciation. Not many mistakes, no heavy accent.
...

In one definition, you can be fluent but not proficient. In the other definition, to be fluent is to be proficient.

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s_allard
Triglot
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Message 28 of 48

26 November 2012 at 4:00pm | IP Logged

DaraghM wrote:

I argue that it is time that HTLAL aligned itself with the CEFR. Not only Europe but many other countries are using the CEFR as their reference model. It is the state of the art for the time being. It appears more and more in the threads. I think it's time to move on.
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DaraghM
Diglot
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Ireland
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Message 29 of 48

26 November 2012 at 4:29pm | IP Logged

s_allard wrote:

I argue that it is time that HTLAL aligned itself with the CEFR.

I completely agree with this statement. It's much easier to figure out what CEFR level you're at, compared to definitions of fluency or proficiency.

Edited by DaraghM on 26 November 2012 at 4:30pm
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kanewai
Triglot
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Message 30 of 48

26 November 2012 at 4:32pm | IP Logged

DaraghM wrote:

s_allard wrote:

I argue that it is time that HTLAL aligned itself
with the CEFR.

I completely agree with this statement. It's much easier to figure out what CEFR level
you're at, compared to definitions of fluency or proficiency.

This is the one
change I would love to see at HTLAL.
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hrhenry
Octoglot
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Message 31 of 48

26 November 2012 at 4:36pm | IP Logged

DaraghM wrote:

s_allard wrote:

I argue that it is time that HTLAL aligned itself
with the CEFR.

I completely agree with this statement. It's much easier to figure out what CEFR level
you're at, compared to definitions of fluency or proficiency.

While I agree that HTLAL should probably reference the CEFR, I'm not so sure that it's
all that easy for people to self-assess their own level. It's really easy to
overestimate our abilities, based solely on the simple paragraphs written in the CEFR
wikipedia.

R.
==
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jeff_lindqvist
Diglot
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Message 32 of 48

26 November 2012 at 5:07pm | IP Logged

Solfrid Cristin wrote:

I am not sure how to qualify my Swedish as it goes fast enough, but I am unable to judge how many mistakes I make. Any Swede out there that cares to give me an evaluation? :-)

Based on the short sample HERE, I've heard a lot worse from people who have lived here for decades (I almost wrote "centuries"...). And as for the accent, I wrote this on another forum:
"I don't hear any trace of Norwegian in Cristina's languages, not even her Swedish sounds Norwegian (however, a bit "foreign")."

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