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Being precise about fluency? | ||
Tags: Fluency | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5381 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes  Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 41 of 48 04 December 2012 at 7:57pm | IP Logged | ||
I agree with your general vision of fluency. Edited by Arekkusu on 04 December 2012 at 8:01pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Wulfgar Senior Member United States Joined 4671 days ago 404 posts - 791 votes Speaks: English* | Message 42 of 48 09 December 2012 at 3:23am | IP Logged | ||
We all know this argument leads to nowhere. Saying "proficient" is no clearer than saying "fluent". 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5430 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 43 of 48 09 December 2012 at 6:33pm | IP Logged | ||
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As I said earlier, @splog has done an excellent job explaining what fluency is all about. And @Arekkusu agrees. Obviously, some people still confuse proficiency and fluency. That's OK too. Not everybody sees the difference.
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| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6597 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 44 of 48 09 December 2012 at 7:42pm | IP Logged | ||
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People don't confuse them. Fluency is just one of the numerous words that have several meanings. Or do you mean there's a difference between the popular meaning of fluent, compared to the meaning of the word proficient?
The discussions happen because everyone's standards are at least slightly different, not because some people use the word fluency in a way of which you don't approve. If you replace fluent with proficient, most posts will still make sense. (apart from yours haha) Edited by Serpent on 09 December 2012 at 7:50pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6597 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 45 of 48 10 December 2012 at 12:43am | IP Logged | ||
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Also, is it just me or do associations come into play here? To me fluent is all about fluidity, ease while proficient sounds like professional use.
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| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5430 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 46 of 48 10 December 2012 at 1:34pm | IP Logged | ||
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Many people don't care how words are used. Proficiency, fluency, bah, it's all the same. When I say fluent, I mean proficient and when I say proficient, I mean fluent. What's the fuss?
The reason some people - but not everybody - make a distinction is because they want to use fluency in the technical sense that all specialists use. The CEFR model talks about fluency in a specific way for a specific reason. So, it all boils down to precision of language which, in my opinion, is a fundamental basis for any sort of meaningful discussion. But then again some people don't give a hoot. As I write this, I see a thread in the Learning Techniques section of this forum on the best way to master correct conjugations. When I had a look, I realized that the OP was about how to master grammatical gender in German nouns. One of the posters politely pointed out that verbs not nouns are conjugated and that we are talking about noun declensions. Well, aren't conjugations and declensions the same thing? Isn't it all morphology? What's the fuss? 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4707 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 47 of 48 10 December 2012 at 1:36pm | IP Logged | ||
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They are both morphological phenomena but that does not mean they are the same thing.
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| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6597 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 48 of 48 10 December 2012 at 3:45pm | IP Logged | ||
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The distinction can also be made by saying "speak with fluency" vs speak fluently. to me with fluency clearly means only the technical sense of the word.
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