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Why is the UK so poor at languages? | ||
Tags: Language Politics | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| TobaccoSmoke Newbie England Joined 4374 days ago 16 posts - 21 votes | Message 1 of 13 05 December 2012 at 1:13pm | IP Logged |
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My experience of the UK education system in regards to language hasn't been very good. I'm 21, so it wasn't so long ago that I was doing my GCSEs, and being interested in languages even then, I really wanted to do the Spanish GCSE.
However, as my academic record wasn't strong across the board (I was always better at Arts subjects than technical subjects), they wouldn't let me as they felt it would be too hard for me, which is utter nonsense as languages were probably my strongest subject. I don't know if my school was typical, but they pretty much only allowed the most intelligent students to take language GCSEs and A Levels, believing that they were too demanding for even average students. I think this is the attitude towards languages in the UK in general. The ability to learn a language is seen as being beyond the intellectual abilities of the average person. Anyone who can speak a second language fluently in the UK is highly regarded and considered highly intelligent, perhaps even more so than someone accomplished in Physics or Mathematics. I'd have liked to have done a Spanish degree, but of course, no A Level in Spanish = no entry, regardless of your actual Spanish level. I am somewhat bitter about the UK education system's approach to languages because it has meant that my study has always had to have been self-study, and consequently persuing higher education in languages or linguistics has been out of the question because I was constantly told at school that languages were too hard for me and that I shouldn't bother with them, thus consequently not getting the piece of paper that "proves" my ability. Do you think the attitude towards languages in the education system is the root course of the lack of second language ability in the UK, or is there a deeper cultural reason for this? Edited by TobaccoSmoke on 05 December 2012 at 1:18pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Cavesa Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 5009 days ago 3277 posts - 6779 votes  Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, German, Italian | Message 2 of 13 05 December 2012 at 2:05pm | IP Logged |
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No, this is not normal. Here,most people study two foreign languages at school and a
lot of us take a foreign language for the high school finals instead of maths (the combination is Czech, maths/language, two more subjects of your choice). Some schools make it a requirement, like my school, that if you want to take maths, you need to take a language anyways. The system is more complicated (and dumb) now than the few years ago when I was ending high school but there is no need to get into details. Knowing a foreign language is seen as an important skill aside your other skills but of course, the quality of teachers and motivation of students vary. And GSCE, isn't it an A2 level? That is really low, no idea why they think you shouldn't be able to get there after years of study and your self study preparation for the exam. How can a school forbid you to chose your exam? Have you spoken with your parents about it? Any system where university entry is fully dependant on grades is stupid. Grades tell nothing about your future at university, trust me. And no teacher should have the power to destroy your dreams just because he or she doesn't think you can fulfill them. That is the university's job ;-) Have you considered sitting a DELE exam? If you managed to get a DELE of the same or higher level than GSCE, than this would prove your teachers are stupid morons who have no right to keep you from your future under such a pretext. Or if you did DELE of high level (at least B2 but more likely C1/C2), than perhaps the university could take it under consideration? Really, how can they just forbid you? Isn't access to education part of the basic rights or something like that? If there is no real reason, then a school inspection or some institution like that (perhaps even Ministry of Education or the equivalent in the UK) should know what is happening. This is not the reason why UK is horrible at languages. This is just another sign of the true reason. 1.People don't really need other languages so they don't really try. 2 Therefore they fail or just give up and excuse themselves as "languages are too hard" 3.They spread the view. I believe learning one foreign language to a useful level (I don't mean native level or so high skills, just to get by in normal situations) is possible for everyone who is able to attend normal school education. But the UK education system obviously disagrees. Which means they consider either their students in general or their teachers in general to have a mental condition (is this the correct term?) 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| g-bod Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5982 days ago 1485 posts - 2002 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: French, German | Message 3 of 13 05 December 2012 at 2:29pm | IP Logged |
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It's a shame you were let down by your school. I guess the approach taken by your school probably reflects the steer from UK government. When they stopped requiring all students to take a language GCSE, I can see how some schools would steer students who appeared less academic into subjects that are perceived to be less demanding, because schools performance was measured by how many students passed 5 GCSEs, regardless of the subject, at that time.
If it's an consolation, I think I've learned a lot more in the 12 years since I left formal education than in the 12 years I was stuck in the school system. There are plenty of opportunities to study languages as an adult, and, if you wish, to prove yourself through entering examinations yourself. You have less spare time as an adult, but this is more than compensated by access to resources and having control over how you live your life. Just imagine how great it will feel if you run into a language teacher from your old school in a couple of years time and can show off about how good your Spanish is and how wrong they were about you. If you haven't already gone off to university and saddled yourself with student debt, you could easily aim to take a Spanish degree in a few years time. And even if you've already done a degree in another subject, it's possible to take another, just harder work to find a way of paying for it. As for languages in the UK, well I think the expectations of the educational system rather reflect cultural attitudes here. We already have the most widely spoken language as a native language, so most people can live their lives without having to worry about using any other language and therefore never really understand what it really means to know, or at least to study properly, another language. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| beano Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4622 days ago 1049 posts - 2152 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Russian, Serbian, Hungarian | Message 4 of 13 05 December 2012 at 2:45pm | IP Logged |
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There are several places in the world where people have little appetite for learning foreign languages. Outside of the English speaking world, South America, Russia, China and Japan are largely monolingual. The larger European nations contain tens of millions of people who don't embrace language learning. Even little Hungary is surprisingly poor at foreign languages.
The bottom line is, the majority of human beings will avoid learning a language unless there is a compelling reason to do so. There are of course countries that promote languages intensely within their education system and they have a much higher success rate than the UK. We seem to have accepted that languages are only for those with a special "gift". But you will find language resistance everywhere. Danish people are generally considered great linguists because they master English and (to a lesser extent) German. But if a Danish businessman is dispatched to Greenland, will he try and learn some Greenlandic or simply not bother because everyone in that country already speaks Danish? Edited by beano on 05 December 2012 at 2:47pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Solfrid Cristin Heptaglot Winner TAC 2011 & 2012 Senior Member Norway Joined 5334 days ago 4143 posts - 8864 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian Studies: Russian | Message 5 of 13 05 December 2012 at 2:46pm | IP Logged |
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A sad story indeed, but unfortunately it is a possible one, even here. We do of course do two foreign languages at school, but if you want to go to University, you need a certain minimum of points as an average. This means that if you are really bad at Math, Bilology, Physics and Geography, like I was, you could risk not being allowed to study languages, even if you were a genius at it.
I worked like a woman posessed the last year before entereing the University, because I was so scared that the combination of my dyslexia, and my lack of skills in non-linguistic subjects would keep me away from my life dream. That hard work payed off, and I had no problems getting in, but it is a bit weird that the system is like this. I hope you can find some sort of solution so that you get to study Spanish now - it is never too late. If I can do Russian at the age of 50, I am sure you can do Spanish at the age of 21. Best of luck!! 3 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Medulin Tetraglot Senior Member Croatia Joined 4668 days ago 1199 posts - 2192 votes Speaks: Croatian*, English, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Norwegian, Hindi, Nepali | Message 6 of 13 05 December 2012 at 4:16pm | IP Logged |
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I don't think it's poor. Some British speak Welsh, some speak Low Scots, some (in Northern Ireland) speak
Irish. ;) 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| overscore Triglot Newbie CanadaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4563 days ago 23 posts - 38 votes Speaks: French*, English, German | Message 7 of 13 05 December 2012 at 4:54pm | IP Logged |
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TobaccoSmoke, I'm thinking this is not necessarily a bad thing. There are many great possibilities if you can get over that rejection and life is so nonlinear that it's not even funny. So if it were me, I'd go my own way.. Like studying outside of the UK :-)
Isn't it quite expensive in the UK already in any case? From a N.A. perspective, you guys have the biggest language buffet ever right before your eyes, so I'd sure as hell hop on the next plane ASAP and meet people all over. Edited by overscore on 05 December 2012 at 4:58pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Siberiano Tetraglot Senior Member Russian Federation one-giant-leap.Registered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6493 days ago 465 posts - 696 votes Speaks: Russian*, English, ItalianC1, Spanish Studies: Portuguese, Serbian | Message 8 of 13 05 December 2012 at 5:45pm | IP Logged |
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@TobaccoSmoke: are you at a college/university now? The easiest (yet extreme) way for a Brit to learn a foreign lanugage is to go teaching English abroad.
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