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ChrisWebb
Senior Member
United Kingdom
Joined 6263 days ago
181 posts - 190 votes 
Speaks: English*
Studies: Korean
| Message 33 of 69 25 April 2008 at 5:21am | IP Logged |
Linguamor would be the poster I have found most helpful though it seems rather unfair to name only one person in a forum which has many many posters whose posts i enjoy reading and from whom I have learned a great deal. I wont namer anyone else for fear of missing people out, which would be inevitable given the number of names that I would be required to list.
1 person has voted this message useful
| leosmith
Senior Member
United States
Joined 6550 days ago
2365 posts - 3804 votes
Speaks: English*
Studies: Tagalog
| Message 34 of 69 26 April 2008 at 6:21pm | IP Logged |
Iversen has been extremely helpful to me. His posts are, almost by definition, epic. Always enjoyable reads, and very helpful. I especially like his detailed descriptions of how to use word lists. Below is a post from the Super-fast vocabulary learning techniques thread.
Iversen wrote:
To do this I have invented a more efficient way of using wordlists. Earlier when I had to learn a list of words I did the usual mistake of looking at each word pair (target - translation) in isolation, repeating it in my head X times until I thought I knew it - but that's wrong. Now I look at 5-7 word pairs at a time. I first write the target words in a column and run mentally through them to learn the translations. Only when I'm sure I know the translations for all the words I add a second column for the translations. Then I study this short list until I'm sure that I could write the original words from the translations, - and then I test this by covering the first column. Only when I actually do remember all the original words I proceed to writing the third column with the original words once again. With this method I can get through (and learn) around 100 new words in an hour. Then a couple of days later I read (and sometimes even write) the list through once more to fixate the words in my long-term memory.
I spend 2-3 hours every day on word lists of the two kinds I have described, so I get through (and learn) at least 200-300 words daily (in 2-3 languages). But the real number is far higher, partly because of derivations, but more importantly because of positive effect the memory training has on my intake of new words from reading and listening. I may sound like a preacher man when speaking about word lists, but I know that I wasted years on inefficient rote learning methods earlier in my life because nobody taught me to use word lists efficiently.
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(That thread is a collection of posts from other threads. The original thread is here)
The absolutely priceless piece of advice I got from this post was to simply attack 5-7 words at a time. I was always worried about integrating small lists into bigger lists right away. After experimenting with 5-7, I realized my recall was just as good as when I did a lot of frustrating integration. Plus, I was able to do a lot more words this way.
For all your excellent advice, and especially for this gem, this "silver bullet" of vocabulary learning tidbits, thanks Iversen!
1 person has voted this message useful
| solidsnake
Diglot
Senior Member
China
Joined 7041 days ago
469 posts - 488 votes
Speaks: English*, Mandarin
| Message 35 of 69 26 April 2008 at 9:00pm | IP Logged |
I agree; it is clearly evident that Iversen knows exactly what he is doing, and his insight is both helpful and valuable to the rest of the community.
1 person has voted this message useful
| frenkeld
Diglot
Senior Member
United States
Joined 6943 days ago
2042 posts - 2719 votes
Speaks: Russian*, English
Studies: German
| Message 36 of 69 27 April 2008 at 10:35am | IP Logged |
In addition to Iversen's posts on vocabulary acquisition, I also found one of ProfArguelles' posts on that topic very interesting. Here is the quote, from this page:
ProfArguelles wrote:
Since you find this helpful, I will give some more details of the way that I have gone about learning to read literature in Russian and other foreign languages.
The first step is to use actual bilingual texts, with the target language on one page and a translation on the facing page. I keep one index finger under one sentence, the other under its counterpart, and I slowly and carefully compare everything. I am not really "reading" at this point, but rather analyzing the language using interesting reading matter.
The second step is to use "readers," i.e., books that contain annotated excerpts of literature with explanatory notes and, most importantly, vocabulary and an index that is specially keyed to these texts so that finding the meaning of unknown words is much easier than it is by using a regular dictionary. I usually make enlarged photocopies of the text first and then write the meaning of all new words directly in the space underneath them. I then read and reread these texts many times.
The third step is begin reading "easy" literature unaided, i.e., material for native children or adolescents.
The fourth step is what I described in an earlier post, namely using not bilingual texts but an original text and a translation in tandem, reading first a portion of the translation, then the original itself. What portion? If all I can handle is a paragraph or a page at a time, then it is better to keep working with actual bilingual texts. At this stage, as I wrote before, it is initially best to read a full chapter at a time. At first I may have to read them back to back, but I find that it is better not to do so, but rather to read the original later in the day. Eventually, I read the entire translated work first, then the original. I never use a dictionary at this stage, but just keep on reading. With Russian, I went through most of Tolstoy, Dostoyevsky, Turgenev, and Checkov this way, as well as some Oblomov and Gogol. I then passed the "airplane test," as I call it, taking a novel that I had not read in translation before with me as my sole companion on an intercontinental flight, and reading it with interest, enjoyment, and understanding the whole time.
I cannot stress strongly enough how important it is to avoid using a dictionary until you have gotten past these stages. Doing so harms you more than it helps you, for it slows you down too much and breaks your concentration. I have always found that using a dictionary is only profitable after I have gotten past this fourth step. Again, I generally try to look up only "known unknowns," i.e., words that I have seen often enough to recognize them ("there's that damn word again--what the hell does it mean?") or even better actually remember them and say to myself, not necessarily while reading, but simply while ruminating, "I know that I don't know what X means--it seems like it means such and such, but I wonder..." When I finally look it up, I never forget it, whereas if I use a dictionary too early, I find myself looking up the same word repeatedly. |
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Edited by frenkeld on 27 April 2008 at 10:48am
1 person has voted this message useful
| leosmith
Senior Member
United States
Joined 6550 days ago
2365 posts - 3804 votes
Speaks: English*
Studies: Tagalog
| Message 37 of 69 10 August 2008 at 7:20pm | IP Logged |
furyou_gaijin is a friend of mine from other forums, and has given me some incredibly helpful advice. The second most memorable was his recommendations and guidance in my Mandarin Journal regarding chinesepod. I've used his advice and applied it to Japanese podcasts too. The result has been a big improvement in my listening.
The most memorable was this thread where he got me to question and ultimately drastically change how I maintain my languages. What I do now is so much more effective than before. Thanks a million furyou - please return some day!
1 person has voted this message useful
| Gilgamesh
Tetraglot
Senior Member
England
Joined 6242 days ago
452 posts - 468 votes
14 sounds
Speaks: Dutch, English, German, French
Studies: Polish
| Message 38 of 69 10 August 2008 at 7:24pm | IP Logged |
leosmith wrote:
Thanks a million furyou - please return some day!
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I second that.
1 person has voted this message useful
| Volte
Tetraglot
Senior Member
Switzerland
Joined 6439 days ago
4474 posts - 6726 votes
Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian
Studies: French, Finnish, Mandarin, Japanese
| Message 39 of 69 11 August 2008 at 4:31am | IP Logged |
Gilgamesh wrote:
leosmith wrote:
Thanks a million furyou - please return some day!
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I second that. |
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I third it.
1 person has voted this message useful
| Sennin
Senior Member
Bulgaria
Joined 6034 days ago
1457 posts - 1759 votes
5 sounds
| Message 40 of 69 11 August 2008 at 10:39am | IP Logged |
Nah, nonsense. Everybody knows that I'm the most useful from member that has ever existed. I second and third this opinion, so that there is no doubt. I even forth it just in case.
2 persons have voted this message useful
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