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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| justinwilliams Diglot Senior Member Canada Joined 6690 days ago 321 posts - 327 votes  3 sounds Speaks: French*, EnglishC2 Studies: German, Italian | Message 17 of 56 20 April 2007 at 7:49pm | IP Logged | ||
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Actually Quebec's population in comparison with the country's population is declining. Therefore it wouldn't be surprising to see all the advantages of Quebec be removed as they've all been offered to buy votes in the second biggest population. And Quebec rate of birth is the second worst after Japan so I doubt the French population has increased much (in percentage at least).
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| justinwilliams Diglot Senior Member Canada Joined 6690 days ago 321 posts - 327 votes 3 sounds Speaks: French*, EnglishC2 Studies: German, Italian | Message 18 of 56 21 April 2007 at 11:03am | IP Logged | ||
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Assuming your numbers were right I came up with this little theory. I had to because I've only been told that the Quebec's birth rate was low but I've never really seen any statistics on that.
It might be due to the same thing that what happened in the Ireland's census where they got an incredibly high number of young people saying they were using Irish on a daily basis: They had Irish's classes daily and they thought it justified saying they knew Irish...So on the next census the question will be changed as to avoid this biased number. As a lot of Canadian schools have French immersion programs and that people tend to describe themselves as fluent whenever they can utter 2 or 3 sentences we might be in a situation where all those people attending immersion programs wrote they were native in French and English...Same thing in Quebec: Everyone writes bilingual on their resume and so I suppose on their census form too. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Ryder Diglot Groupie Norway Joined 6594 days ago 67 posts - 70 votes Speaks: Norwegian, Russian* Studies: English, French | Message 19 of 56 22 April 2007 at 8:08am | IP Logged | ||
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Hi justinwilliams.
I understand that French is your mother tongue? But it sounds like you're ashamed of that, since you're so eager to use English as a first language. I get the impression that you refuse to use your mother tongue...Why? Of course, it's very useful to know English, but you shouldn't deny your French. Be proud of that. Well, if I have misunderstood you, then I'm sorry. By the way, I was in Montréal ten years ago. Spent a month there. I loved Montréal, and I would like to come back one day. I used French when I was there. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| justinwilliams Diglot Senior Member Canada Joined 6690 days ago 321 posts - 327 votes 3 sounds Speaks: French*, EnglishC2 Studies: German, Italian | Message 20 of 56 22 April 2007 at 9:13am | IP Logged | ||
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Ashamed: No, that'd be stupid. I just prefer English for many reasons that's all. Plus I need to create reasons and opportunities to get perfect in English. Learning (everything) is what I love doing so things I already know have less value to me.
But it's like the 'it's your brother, you have to love him' thing. I can't see why one couldn't criticise his mother tongue if reasons there are. There are so many 'French activists', I guess I'm just an 'english activist' alone on his journey! At least now they have someone to fight against instead of that invisible enemy. They fight for the right to live in French in Canada and I fight for the right to live in English in Canada but I get quite a few frowns for doing so?! It's just that they asked for bilingualism in Canada and Quebec is fighting towards unilingualism. To sum it up, I'm not a socialist and since every French country is, I decided I was going to become English!lol It's just that I don't want to live in a French country but rather in an English (or other) one so I want to be as perfect as I can to have every chances on my side to succeed. Therefore, each word I say in French is a word that doesn't make me progress. I do use French without any problem with my mother and friends but it does piss me off to have people talking to me in French at work since I moved here to learn English or on language chats. French tv, books in French, except for the accent issue, seem to me as a waste of time. And I don't like getting documentation in French even though I wrote English in the language to be used section just because I also checked French as the native language. I just try to use my time effectively by doing one of these activities and learning. Same thing with doing your every day routine: If you have to do it, why not do it to make it usefull. Therefore, filling up you gas tank won't ever be seen as wasting your time. So in order for me to watch tv in French it has to be a very good show, same thing with books. It's just a quality/time/result gauging. There's a lot of mental illness in my family! Edited by justinwilliams on 22 April 2007 at 6:36pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| hernanday Diglot Newbie Canada Joined 4545 days ago 18 posts - 23 votes Speaks: English*, French Studies: Spanish | Message 21 of 56 17 June 2012 at 12:28am | IP Logged | ||
Actually it is much deeper than that. Outside of Quebec(and rural new brunswick), Canada is basically Unilingually English. That is Canada is only formed in 1867, and only became a truly independent country from England in 1982 when we repatriated the constitution, up until that point, British Lords in parliament could still change laws directly in Canada. The only real bilingual provinces were Quebec and New Brunswick. Ottawa sits on the border of Ontario and Quebec, and is the capital of Canada, and it more has to do with being an official language because when Canada was formed Quebec had a larger population % wise, and almost half the country of 4 provinces (Ontario, Quebec, New Brunswick and Nova Scotia) spoke french by majority, although the aristocrats where all English speakers in Quebec. Hence Quebec's economic decline from the 70s where they have increased the strength of french language ie banning English street signs in businesses. The real reason why most Canadians do not speak French is because of the reasons listed above. The wealthy people in Quebec where all English, when Quebec passed laws favouring French over English, rich anglophones started moving to Toronto, so French importance in Canada went into further decline. Meaning typical anglophones have no exposure to French on a regular basis. Add in the fact that most Qubeckers are bilingual (recall only real major bilingual province), leads to the fact that if you encounter a quebecer in Ontario he will speak semi fluent English like Jean Chritien, not really flueny, but you will understand his point. Further there is very little french in the american dominated media, or even Canadian media. We watch HBO and MTV Canada too. You are right, one does not need French to live or thrive in Canada. In fact I'd say its a heinderance for a EFL to try to learn french. IME, if there is a job that requires bilingual speaker. They are far more generous to French native speakers. That is, an English speaker will be required to speak almost like a native in french to get a bilingual job, whereas a French speaker will just need passable English at a very low level. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| lecavaleur Diglot Senior Member Canada Joined 4778 days ago 146 posts - 295 votes Speaks: English*, French Studies: German, Spanish | Message 22 of 56 17 June 2012 at 5:48am | IP Logged | ||
I find that attitude to be pretty abhorrent and offensive, as a fellow Quebecker, to tell you the truth. You get upset because people at work try to talk to you in French? WTF? Excuse my frankness, but if you want to live in English so damn badly there are a lot better places to do that than Montréal. Fighting to for your so-called right to speak English in what is essentially a French-speaking country (that's right, I said country) seems to me to be the most ridiculous waste of time on the planet. Even more a waste of time than what you consider French TV to be. (OK, j'avoue qu'Occupation Double c'est une perte de temps, mais pas plus que Mad Men ou True Blood. La télé en général est une massive perte de temps.) I can't tell you how you should feel about your native language, but I can tell you that I find your petty attempts to undermine the primacy of the French language in Québec both futile and childish, and that regardless of you you "feel", you should respect the tireless struggle and efforts that so-many generations have put into building and maintaining a French-speaking nation against all odds on a continent dominated by English. 50 years ago, you wouldn't even have had the right to speak French at work, and now you're bitching because your co-workers make an effort to speak to you in French? Voyons donc ! If one of your goals in life is to live in English, I can respect that (one of mine is to live in French), then boss up and move somewhere that speaks English for real. You don't have to go that far. You're within driving distance to Ontario, New York and Vermont. Edited by lecavaleur on 17 June 2012 at 8:08am 7 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| tastyonions Triglot Senior Member United States goo.gl/UIdChYRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4666 days ago 1044 posts - 1823 votes Speaks: English*, French, Spanish Studies: Italian | Message 23 of 56 17 June 2012 at 3:12pm | IP Logged | ||
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I doubt that justinwilliams will be replying to you, since he last visited a few years ago. But who knows!
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| lecavaleur Diglot Senior Member Canada Joined 4778 days ago 146 posts - 295 votes Speaks: English*, French Studies: German, Spanish | Message 24 of 56 17 June 2012 at 4:24pm | IP Logged | ||
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Really? I didn't realize. Oh well.
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