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Learning a language by ear alone | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
| BartoG Diglot Senior Member United States confession Joined 5439 days ago 292 posts - 818 votes  Speaks: English*, French Studies: Italian, Spanish, Latin, Uzbek | Message 9 of 12 05 March 2011 at 7:39pm | IP Logged | |||||
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It's true that you learn your first language by ear alone, but it's at an age when the brain is also figuring out its understanding of phonemic systems for languages. Once that system is set, things can be different. For example, German "ch" can sound like a harsher version of "h" to an English speaker. If you're learning German, but you divide phonemes according to your native English, you're going to need something to keep straight the harsh "h"s from the softer "h"s till you can separate them into "ch" and "h". There are a number of strategies you could use, of course, but if you happen to be literate, German speakers have already implemented an excellent one: They use different symbols to represent them and if you can read a bit of German you can see at a glance which is which till the language sets in.
The challenge with written support in learning a language is using familiar looking letters with a new phonemic system. And I know firsthand - as does any language learner - the dangers and temptations of using your old phonemic system with it. But I'm not sure that avoiding writing is the best way to address this. It depends on whether the language is written phonetically and the society has high literacy. If so, native speakers are going to associate sounds with a standard phonemic system and maybe you should too since your mental processing is no longer geared to help you untangle phonemic systems naturally. I've had experiences with this in both directions: On the one hand, my Italian and Spanish need work because I learned from reading before making serious use of audio, so I pronounce a lot of things with my early approximations of the sounds, instead of a more native accent. On the other hand, when I did Mandarin audio only (with Pimsleur), I made no distinction, eg, between q and ch, because I couldn't hear it. It was only after learning pin yin and forcing myself to differentiate the sounds in pronunciation that I began to get a sense of two separate sounds that I would have transcribed identically had I not gotten explicit guidance on the difference. You can argue about whether a written system is the best way to come to grips with the idea that a difference exists and you need to learn it, but it is one way and it is a quick way at that. So the key, I think, is not about avoiding written support or support in your own language; it's about building strong enough associations in the new language that when you switch the writing is a crutch for using the new phonemic system instead of a crutch for avoiding learning it. 4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Andrew C Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom naturalarabic.com Joined 5182 days ago 205 posts - 350 votes Speaks: English*, Arabic (Written) | Message 10 of 12 05 March 2011 at 8:31pm | IP Logged | |||||
With or without a translation? If without, I think this is not a good way to learn. You need some way to get meaning other than just the surrounding words, particularly when starting off in a language. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6695 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 11 of 12 05 March 2011 at 10:57pm | IP Logged | |||||
This basically answers the original question: yes, of course languages can be learned without using written sources. The question is therefore only whether it is worth trying. My first reaction to this was that it would be idiotic to try - limiting your supply of sources couldn't be a good idea. But then I came to think of my experiences with Irish, which has a rather confusing orthography (though not worse than that of English). Maybe it was worth trying to learn at least the basics of such a language by ear before you even tried to read a line of text in it. Chinese might also be a case - though for a different reason: those decorative ideogrammes are not misleading in the same way as Irish or English writing is - they are just totally irrelevant for the pronunciation. OK, then learn some basicissimus spoken Chinese to have something to keep your brain spinning - symbols aren't enough. That being said, I do believe that you would do yourself a disservice if you refuse to use written sources - especially if your access to patient native speakers with unlimited time to spare is limited. Personally I'm more likely to go to the opposite extreme (which is just as bad): learning a language without the necessary reference to speech. But I don't see participation in ordinary courses with fellow students, dialogs and all that stuff as an option. Edited by Iversen on 05 March 2011 at 11:09pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5373 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 12 of 12 06 March 2011 at 3:22am | IP Logged | |||||
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Not only is it possible to learn languages without written material, it's the natural
way to do it. For millenia, before the very recent invention of written language and the even more recent spread of reading skills to larger portions of the population (in some parts of the world only), foreign languages were learned one way, and one way only: through interactions with other speakers. However, listening only is not the same thing as human interaction and you are talking about taking a method meant to be read and trying to learn by listening to it only. I don't know of any method that is specifically intended to be used strictly aurally, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Still, the advantage of written material is that information that isn't included in your method remains accessible, even when no native speaker is available. If you can't read the language, you can't even look up a word you don't know. As an independent learner, you need to be self-sufficient. That means you need to be able to consult grammars when you have questions, or to look up new words. Being able to read can also give you access to additional exposure. Nevertheless, you can choose to make listening the biggest part of your leaning regimen, but I'd suggest you leave some room for reading and writing. That's what I did with Japanese where the majority of the early learning I did was through podcasts. The results is that I might know less kanji than some other learners, but I'm comfortable listening and speaking. I personally believe that we are hard-wired to learn languages in real-life, meaningful situations that involve interactions with other human beings. Whether you are learning with a method that offers written and aural stimulus, or only one of the two, you will always be lacking the most essential part of language acquisition: human interaction. 4 persons have voted this message useful |
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