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Mutual Intelligibility of Moroccan Arabic | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| liddytime Pentaglot Senior Member United States mainlymagyar.wordpre Joined 6230 days ago 693 posts - 1328 votes  Speaks: English*, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, Galician Studies: Hungarian, Vietnamese, Modern Hebrew, Norwegian, Persian, Arabic (Written) | Message 1 of 17 29 May 2012 at 3:36am | IP Logged | |||||
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From my Arabic studies, I have gathered that Moroccan Arabic is pretty much unintelligible with the other dialects of
spoken Arabic. I wonder though, is there intelligibility between Moroccan Arabic and the other North African dialects such as Tunisian, Algerian and Libyan Arabic? I have heard that there is much more intelligibility between these North African dialects than there is with the others outside of the Maghreb. I appreciate your input! Edited by liddytime on 29 May 2012 at 5:09am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Al-Irelandi Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5536 days ago 111 posts - 177 votes Speaks: English* | Message 2 of 17 29 May 2012 at 12:27pm | IP Logged | |||||
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A few issues. Firstly, there are a number of Arabic variants throughout Morocco, as
there are throughout North Africa. There is a continuum between them. The North African Arabic 'variants' or vernaculars share similarities together, as they do with the eastern Arabic dialects. Secondly, not necessarily directed at the OP, but on this forum there is a (mis)understanding that Arabic speakers of different 'dialects' cannot understand each other as their 'dialects' are not 'mutually intelligible'. A Moroccan if dropped in Iraq could get by and 'pick-up' or acquire the speech in the target country rather quickly. Furthermore, if he only spoke his 'dialect' then he could still be understood, the analogy I've seen on here being made between Morocco and an eastern Arabic variant being similar to a Romanian and a French speaker is unfounded: the intelligibility is far greater between the former speakers than the latter, even if the analogy is to be made between an Italian speaker and a Romanian speaker or Spanish speaker, the mutual-intelligibility and understanding is greater between the Arabic speakers despite the greater geographical distance. Thirdly, I know of and have witnessed a multitude of North African's who communicate with each other (whilst modifying their speech to a minor degree) as well as seen them communicate with Sudanese, Egyptians, Syrians, Lebanese, Iraqis, without speaking 'Egyptian', rather modifying their speech to a degree or another. This is done whilst still being distinct from the latter in their speech or using Fus-Haa in conjunction with their L1. This is accomplished, without studying the other's 'dialect' or considering themselves 'polyglots', and has been in observed in countries outside of the Arab world. Foruthly, another point that bolsters Arabic speakers understanding each other besides the similarities of their spoken variants is a social-linguistic issue: many Arabic speakers do not feel 'otherness' towards each other as that speakers of various Romance languages or other language family speakers may do towards other speakers of related languages. As a result, they will attempt to speak and negotiate meaning (which is further facilitated by many shared linguistic and cultural patterns). If one has an understanding of the Interacationist paradigm in language acquisition then this is not so suprising (c.f. Gass 1997, 2003, 2007). In sum, we cannot deny Arabic 'dialects' differ, but it is not a problem for communication between Arabic speakers as some have argued. And in response to the OP, if you know one NA Arabic variant, then it will facilitate understanding the surrounding variants, even up to Egypt: especially in the west of the country and in the Alexandrian/Iskanderaani Arabic variant. Edited by Al-Irelandi on 30 May 2012 at 9:06am 7 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| liddytime Pentaglot Senior Member United States mainlymagyar.wordpre Joined 6230 days ago 693 posts - 1328 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, Galician Studies: Hungarian, Vietnamese, Modern Hebrew, Norwegian, Persian, Arabic (Written) | Message 3 of 17 29 May 2012 at 4:30pm | IP Logged | |||||
So, I suppose that's a "yes" ;-) The above is interesting because I have eavesdropped on many an Arabic conversation around campus between speakers from different Arabic countries. They are speaking Arabic but it is definitely not fusHa and seems to be a dialect mix - certainly not any one dialect in isolation! 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Al-Irelandi Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5536 days ago 111 posts - 177 votes Speaks: English* | Message 4 of 17 29 May 2012 at 6:01pm | IP Logged | |||||
Indeed, they seem to know how to adjust their speech to accommodate the other interlocutor(s) involved, not unlike how native speakers (of English, for example) may modify their speech (syntactically, lexically, etc.) when speaking to non-native speakers or young children, in order to foster communication. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Jappy58 Bilingual Super Polyglot Senior Member United States Joined 4639 days ago 200 posts - 413 votes Speaks: Spanish*, Guarani*, Arabic (Levantine), Arabic (Egyptian), Arabic (Maghribi), Arabic (Written), French, English, Persian, Quechua, Portuguese Studies: Modern Hebrew | Message 5 of 17 29 May 2012 at 6:41pm | IP Logged | |||||
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As Al-Irelandi stated, communication is not generally impeded by the different dialects, and they work as a continuum.
If, however, a Moroccan spoke one of the "pure" dialects of that country to an Iraqi, then the Iraqi would most definitely have trouble understanding, but that is not a typical situation. After my studies of Maghrebi Arabic, I've found that the differences between the various dialects in the Maghreb (Moroccan dialects, Algerian, Tunisian, and Libyan) are slightly more notable than the differences between most Middle Eastern dialects (Egyptian, Levant, Hijazi, etc.). Nonetheless, they share a very strong common backbone. Maghrebi was my first dialect to start studying after MSA. I moved to Egyptian after a while since there weren't many resources available at the time, but I went back to Moroccan later, and found that even between Western and Eastern dialects there are overwhelming similarities, so knowing one can help greatly with another. Of course, going from Egyptian (in my specific case, Cairene) to Levantine would be easier than Egyptian to Moroccan, but it is still very doable. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Al-Irelandi Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5536 days ago 111 posts - 177 votes Speaks: English* | Message 6 of 17 29 May 2012 at 10:32pm | IP Logged | |||||
I agree, but it is possible for such a Moroccan to be understood by the Iraqi, even if he was to maintain using his L1 without modifying it, to an extent not possible between Romance speakers (Romanians<>Italians<>Spaniards<>Portugues e<>French) without prior study. It would take some time for the Iraqi to get used to it but he would begin to understand the former quicker and in a way not possible as between the above Romance speakers. And no doubt, the Moroccan who had to deal with Iraqi Arabic with its Farsi derived lexis and to a minor extent grammar (as in the usage of 'khosh' to precede the noun) would have some issues to iron out. However, real life communicative interaction , which provides plenty of meaningful and comprehensible input, helps the two speakers (a Moroccan and an Iraqi in our case, but it could be any other Arabic speakers) reach understanding one another through the expression, interpretation and negotiation of meaning, as understood in the interactionist and communicative language acquisition paradigms. No doubt, this is greatly facilitated by the commonalities that underlie all Arabic vernacular variants, which do not exist (to the same extent) in other language families. Edited by Al-Irelandi on 29 May 2012 at 10:38pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Jappy58 Bilingual Super Polyglot Senior Member United States Joined 4639 days ago 200 posts - 413 votes Speaks: Spanish*, Guarani*, Arabic (Levantine), Arabic (Egyptian), Arabic (Maghribi), Arabic (Written), French, English, Persian, Quechua, Portuguese Studies: Modern Hebrew | Message 7 of 17 30 May 2012 at 12:45am | IP Logged | |||||
Yes, very well said. I think that many people believe that the Arabic dialects vary so much that the difference outweigh the commonalities, which, from experience, isn't really the case. Communication manages to prevail despite some notable differences. One of the reasons I love Arabic. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Gallo1801 Diglot Senior Member Spain Joined 4903 days ago 164 posts - 248 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Arabic (Written), Croatian, German, French | Message 8 of 17 31 May 2012 at 9:35pm | IP Logged | |||||
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[/QUOTE] I agree, but it is possible for such a Moroccan to be understood by the Iraqi, even if he was to maintain using his L1 without modifying it, to an extent not possible between Romance speakers (Romanians<>Italians<>Spaniards<>Portugues e<>French)[/QUOTE] I like to think of Arabic today being as romance was in the mid to latter half of the first millennium. That is to say clearly distinct from the glue of latin, but still similar enough that Lusitanian and a Dacian could communicate by using less localized speech. It'd be interesting to see if the languages diverge enough to be like the romance languages are today, using Fusha as Europe uses Latin. Not likely to happen with technology as it is, but something I've pondered before. Regarding the Romance intelligibility, I agree that Arabic is a lot, lot more closer from Rabat to Dubai than the Romance languages are, but I think Romance communication is possible. From experience, once I was in Bologna and very lost, and had a great conversation with a monolingual 70 year old woman in a sort of Spanish/Italian patois mixed with elements of other latin languages or Latin itself. I've never studied Latin or Italian, but you recognize from exposure and intuition connections and differences. I didn't get every word, but we communicated perfectly! 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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