|
 |
Romance Subjunctive | ||
Tags: Morphology | Romance Languages | ||
Share with:
| ||
 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| MarcusOdim Groupie Brazil Joined 4848 days ago 91 posts - 142 votes  | Message 9 of 12 17 June 2012 at 4:42pm | IP Logged | |||||
Not to mention when they misuse it and say masterpieces like "Você quer que eu faço" instead of "Você quer que eu faça" 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Medulin Tetraglot Senior Member Croatia Joined 4669 days ago 1199 posts - 2192 votes Speaks: Croatian*, English, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Norwegian, Hindi, Nepali | Message 10 of 12 17 June 2012 at 6:04pm | IP Logged | |||||
|
Yup, it's frequent in São Paulo. Fortunately, I learned Portuguese in Salvador, and people there always use subjunctive, even in commands, nada de ME SEGUE, DIZ AÍ ou NÃO CHORA! ME SIGA, DIGA AÍ, and NÃO CHORE! ;)
In Argentinian Spanish, present subjunctive is common after the conditional: Me gustaría que me ayudes. Me gustaría que me ayudaras/ayudases is less common. Edited by Medulin on 17 June 2012 at 6:10pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| tennisfan Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 5361 days ago 130 posts - 247 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, Spanish Studies: German | Message 11 of 12 19 June 2012 at 3:23am | IP Logged | |||||
|
As a response to the OP, Romanian's subjunctive might be the simplest of the Romance languages, at least those that I've studied.
Instead of a dedicated conjugation for each verb in the subjunctive, Romanian replaces it with the particle "să" + the present indicative of the verb in question. This gets rid of the use of the infinitive. As such, the "subjunctive" is used almost non-stop, because any time two verbs are joined (with two notable exceptions), this word "să", a particle which has no meaning, but merely serves as particle to denote the joining of two verbs. For example: Eu vreau. (I want.) Eu fumez. (I smoke.) so, if we join these, and you add "să", it's incredibly simple: "Eu vreau să fumez." - literally "I want (să) I smoke." meaning: "I want to smoke." In other Latin languages this would not be subjunctive necessarily, as the infinitive takes the places of it, "quiero beber," "voglio parlare," etc. In Romanian the infinitive never follows another verb, except for one verb, "a putea," to be able to. BUT, you can still use the subjunctive with "a putea." For example: a putea = to be able to, a vorbi = to speak. limba română = Romanian (language). Pot să vorbesc limba română. = I can speak Romanian (formed with să) but equally correct would be Pot vorbi limba română. = I can speak Romanian. (formed with present indicative of a putea, and then the infinitive of "a vorbi" "a putea" is the only verb where you can do these. All others require "să + 2nd verb." With Romanian, the second verb in the subjunctive is always the same as the present indicative, except for the third person, and third person plural. So, for example, when you look up a conjugation, you would see this for present indicative (a merge, to go) eu merg tu mergi el/ea merge (meargă) noi mergem voi mergeti ei merg (meargă) ...where the words in parentheses indicate the differing subjunctive form for the third person plural and singular. The others don't have a designated subjunctive form because, thankfully, they are identical. With the subjunctive, combined with the verb "a vrea" (to want), you would see this as follows: "(I/you/etc) go, but (I/you/etc) do not want to go." (this shows "a merge" in the present indicative form in the first clause, yet in the subjunctive in the second clause) Eu merg, dar nu vreau să merg. (identical) (1st person) Tu mergi, dar nu vrei să mergi. (identical) (2nd person) El/ea merge, dar nu vrea să meargă. (change from merge -> meargă, 3rd person sing.) Noi mergem, dar nu vrem să mergem. (identical) Voi mergeți, dar nu vreți să mergeți. (identical) Ei merg, dar nu vor să meargă. (change from merge -> meargă, 3rd person plural) Another easy aspect of this is that, as I said, the second conjugated verb following să always stays in the present indicative, the only one that would change would be the first verb, the one preceding să. For example--- past N-am vrut să merg acolo. meaning: "I didn't want to go there." In this sentence, "n-am vrut" is in the past tense, it means "I did not want", yet "merg" is still in the present tense. A literal English translation would be "I did not want (+) I go there." past conditional N-aș fi vrut să-l sărut dacă aș fi știut că era bolnav. Meaning, "I would not have wanted to kiss him if I had known he was sick." Literally, "I would not have wanted (+) I kiss him, if I had known he was sick." future Nu voi vrea să gătesc când mă întorc acasă, voi fi prea obosit. "I won't want to cook when I get home, I'll be too tired," literally, "I won't want (+) I cook when I get home, I will be too tired." as you can see, regardless of the tense of the first verb, the verb following "să," in the subjunctive, always stays in the present. In most Latin languages this would be replaced by the infinitive. For example "no voy a querer cocinar," or "no quise cocinar." In Romanian, however, these sentences would always be considered subjunctive. In other slightly more complicated sentences, Romanians will also use the conditional to express what might be subjunctive in other Latin languages. For example: Aș vrea ca el să vină. Literally: "I would want that he come." meaning: "I wish he would come/"I would like for him to come." Aș vrea ca Maria să facă asta. Lit: "I would want that Maria do this." meaning: "I wish Maria will do this"/"I hope Maria does this"/"I would like for Maria to do this." Aș vrea ca el să fie într-adevăr fericit. "I would like that he be truly happy." meaning: "I want him to be happy." or "I hope he is happy." Actually, I have always thought this second common way sounds a bit clumsy and overly complicated to express what is actually a simple thought. But it is very common in spoken and written Romanian. Both are used, but any time you want to join two verbs, the "subjunctive" "să" is used, so you would hear it all the time. Sentences like "Do you want to eat?", "Are we going to see the movie?" "I don't want to talk to you," and "You're starting to annoy me," would all use the subjunctive in Romanian. On the one hand, it is more commonly used, practically all the time. On the other hand, it is absurdly simple to learn, so it is probably the easiest of the Romance language subjunctives, IMO. edited to add: I almost forgot one of the most important ways Romanian uses the subjunctive: with the verb "a trebui," a verb that covers the English usage of "have to," "must," "should," "need"--all in one word! In Spanish, for example, one would say "tengo que irme," (I have to go), "tienes que hablar con el," "you must speak with him", or even "hay que decir algo," "you have to say something," all of these use the infinitive. In Romanian, these expressions would be formed with the third person singular of "a trebui" + "să" and the proper conjugation of the second verb according to the person/s. Also, "a trebui" is an impersonal verb and as such the conjugation is inflexible, using only the third person "trebuie"(present) "trebuia" (imperfect/past) a trebuit (past), etc, in all cases. This is similar to English "I must/you must/we must," not "I must/you must/she musts/we musted." The literal translation would then be something like "it must be (that) ____" where the blank is filled in with the verb, conjugated according to the previously mentioned rules. But of course what it means is "I have to," "you have to," "We must," "we should," etc. The form of the second verb clears up who is being referred to. Somes example of "a trebui": Trebuie să plec. "I have to go."/"I must go." Trebuie să mergi la doctor. "You should go to the doctor." Mi-e foame, trebuie să mâncăm ceva repede. "I'm hungry, we have to eat something quickly." N-ar trebui să te porți așa cu mama ta. "You shouldn't act like that towards your mother." Ar trebui să-mi acordezi respect. "You should show me some respect." Trebuie neapărat să vorbim. "We absolutely have to speak." Trebuia să fiu acasă de mult, mă așteaptă nevastă-mea. "I should have been home by now, my wife is waiting for me." That is one of the other important ways in which non-subjunctive phrases in other Latin languages become subjunctive in Romanian. Again, this is not daunting at all since it is easier to conjugate. The only limitation in my view is that this verb "a trebui" is used to cover a very wide spectrum of phrases, from "must" to "should" to "have to," where English allows for nuances. I once had a lengthy argument with someone about the phrase "Trebuie să mergi la doctor," which could be interpreted either as "you should go" (i.e., it is a good idea,) and also as "you must/have to go," as in "I demand that you go, it is an order." Some Romanians see very little difference between the two, whereas in English "should" would be more of a suggestion... of course, one could say simply "cred că ar fi o bună idee să mergi la doctor" "I think it would be a good idea if you would go to the doctor," which is much more polite and less demanding, but this could be covered so simply by the English "should.".... Anyway, enough rambling... hopefully this has helped anyone who is interested! Edited by tennisfan on 20 June 2012 at 3:29am 4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Rykketid Diglot Groupie Italy Joined 4834 days ago 88 posts - 146 votes Speaks: Italian*, English Studies: French | Message 12 of 12 13 July 2012 at 7:00pm | IP Logged | |||||
What's the difference then? :-) To me they look perfectly identical but I've never studied Spanish properly... 2 persons have voted this message useful |
If you wish to post a reply to this topic you must first login. If you are not already registered you must first register
|  | 
Printable version
|
| Copyright 2024 FX Micheloud - All rights reserved No part of this website may be copied by any means without my written authorization. |
