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Why I think the Pimsleur method is good. | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Programs, Books & Tapes |  | |
| Andrew C Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom naturalarabic.com Joined 5188 days ago 205 posts - 350 votes  Speaks: English*, Arabic (Written) | Message 25 of 48 18 January 2011 at 2:05am | IP Logged | |||||
Yes - they guarantee you will be able to pass the lowest level test (Novice), whatever that is - who knows, maybe you just have to say your name. But to find out you have to pay some unknown fee to languageline which fee doesn't seem to be refundable if you fail the test. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6009 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 26 of 48 18 January 2011 at 8:10pm | IP Logged | |||||
Simple. This test is for people who have studied Pimsleur I. Pimsleur is so good that after finishing it, you're guaranteed to pass an exam designed specifically so that everyone who has finished the course will pass it. About as useful as a chocolate teapot. 8 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6009 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 27 of 48 18 January 2011 at 8:23pm | IP Logged | |||||
The problem is that they're the wrong words, or rather the wrong morphemes. When we learned our native languages as children, we naturally got a "statistically correct" exposure to the various morphemes in the language. One of the subtleties of the way the brain processes language is that there is a direct relationship between frequency of occurrence and the time it takes to process a morpheme. So it doesn't matter whether we're talking about "comprobar" or "verificar", the word itself takes a native speaker longer to recall than the endings that you would apply to conjugate. Contrast the pacing of the introduction of verb endings in Pimsleur with the lightning pace they're introduced in in our favourite other course. It is taken for granted in most courses that conjugation is "difficult", so it's left later and made more difficult. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| mr_chinnery Senior Member England Joined 5755 days ago 202 posts - 297 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French | Message 28 of 48 19 January 2011 at 1:02am | IP Logged | |||||
My thoughts exactly! 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Normunds Pentaglot Groupie Switzerland Joined 5962 days ago 86 posts - 112 votes Speaks: Latvian*, French, English, Russian, German Studies: Mandarin, Indonesian | Message 29 of 48 29 January 2011 at 12:12pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Hm, Mr Chinnery, sounds you've changed your opinion throughout this thread. You started with why Pimsleur is "good" and ended agreeing that all it gives is being able to pass a specially created test.
IMO any marketingware such as Pimsleur or Michel Thomas use the terms describing language levels pretty creatively. No matter if you listen to all 90 lessons to Pimsleur or all the parts there are available in MT, you do not get out of Beginners level such as being normally used elsewhere, where Intermediate would be about starting with the second year of university course, if you are specialized in particular language. They might not be bad (ok, I like Pimsleur and dislike MT), but they both do a hard job to mislead their customers as to what they bring, so they can cash in disproportionately. And such a bogus exams are just another example. Edited by Normunds on 29 January 2011 at 12:12pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| mr_chinnery Senior Member England Joined 5755 days ago 202 posts - 297 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French | Message 30 of 48 29 January 2011 at 4:54pm | IP Logged | |||||
I never said that's 'all it gives'. I was concurring that the test is a bit non- sensical. At no point did I contradict my initial belief that the Pimsleur method is good. Perhaps more English reading/comprehension practice is required on your part. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Normunds Pentaglot Groupie Switzerland Joined 5962 days ago 86 posts - 112 votes Speaks: Latvian*, French, English, Russian, German Studies: Mandarin, Indonesian | Message 31 of 48 29 January 2011 at 8:23pm | IP Logged | |||||
Not that I doubt that the Pimsleur course (at 90 lessons no less) is a reasonably good beginners course. Mind I tried to find on their site the reference to 2500 words necessary to cover 90% of everyday situation, and could not... But it was there I last looked a few years ago :-) However I found 2 interesting bits: * on pimsleur.co.uk they claim "The Complete Course will take the student from beginner right through to an advanced comprehension of their chosen language." So I assume they mean here 3x30 lesson package * on pimsleur.com they claimed even more interestingly for the "Comprehensive, Level I" - "Designed for those who want to gain fluency with 400-500 vocabulary words and several hundred sentence structures." Now I passed a Pimsleur Mandarin transcript I happened to have through the DimSum to count the words. The result: Part I - 243 unique words Part II - 314 Part III - 328 For all 3 parts 536 unique words. So 500-600 words at best to take you "to an advanced comprehension". Basically we need five Pimsleur complete courses put end to end (or fifteen 30 hour modules at their pace) to get 2500 words that will get us through 90% of everyday situations. Okok, the quote is not there anymore, but it sounds a pretty reasonable estimate. The wordcount above might have certain error, but it gives the magnitude pretty well and is definitely at odds with the numbers provided on their site for a single 30 hours module. And let's not talk about several hundred sentence structures, when it should probably simply read "several hundred sentences" :-) For comparison, I did the same thing with the Assimil Mandarin transcripts: Part I - 663 unique words Part II - 1117 In both - 1322 unique words. 6 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| mr_chinnery Senior Member England Joined 5755 days ago 202 posts - 297 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French | Message 32 of 48 30 January 2011 at 2:41am | IP Logged | |||||
I was never in doubt! I like Pimsleur so I wrote a post about it, that's all! I'm glad you agree that Pimsleur is a good beginner's course, I knew the limitations before I started using it. It's a bit strange that you insinuate I have an ulterior motive for starting this thread, you clearly have issues. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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