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Why I think the Pimsleur method is good. | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Programs, Books & Tapes |  | |
| mrwarper Diglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member Spain forum_posts.asp?TID=Registered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5224 days ago 1493 posts - 2500 votes  Speaks: Spanish*, EnglishC2 Studies: German, Russian, Japanese | Message 41 of 48 30 January 2011 at 11:16pm | IP Logged | |||||
Anyway I have dabbed a wide selection of Pimsleur programs and I agree with the majority here: very good for beginners, but severely overpriced. What strikes me as strange, however, is that everyone in a language learning forum seems so blissfully ignorant of marketese--no matter how good a course is, it has to look (even) better in home-brewed reviews: if they teach you 500 words they'll claim 1500, etc. Did anyone really expect these guys to walk the talk? Come on! :) 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Normunds Pentaglot Groupie Switzerland Joined 5962 days ago 86 posts - 112 votes Speaks: Latvian*, French, English, Russian, German Studies: Mandarin, Indonesian | Message 42 of 48 31 January 2011 at 8:04pm | IP Logged | |||||
It's not so much walking the talk or not. Fair or honest marketing is oxymoron. Nowdays many marketers such as Pimsleurians walk the line between misleading/dishonest and criminal. Going just so far that you cannot sue them :-/ But not always; let's see if Taco Bell for example finds some meat to strengthen their argument... 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Betjeman Groupie Germany Joined 6141 days ago 85 posts - 204 votes Speaks: German* | Message 43 of 48 03 May 2012 at 9:09am | IP Logged | |||||
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A lot has been said in this thread. I want to add that I really like the thoughtful and tolerant attitude of
mr_chinnery's review. I still have mixed feelings about Pimsleur though. I get really sceptical when a language course throws obstacles in my way without properly preparing me for it. Granted, real life often works like that. But isn't a commercial course expected to offer a well-graded progression instead of real life's jumble? Here' an example. Lesson three of Pimsleur French asks me to say "You are not American", in French of course. So far I have been told that negations in French are formed by framing the verb with "ne" and "pas". This in itself is a new and unusual concept for speakers of English (and many other languages). Furthermore, the only negation that has been given up to this point is "Je ne comprends pas". The course grants me about three seconds to figure out a) how the sentence would sound in the affirmative, b) how to turn it into a negation by framing its verb with "ne" and "pas" (including the added bonus of dropping the "e" in "ne" because the verb in question starts with a vowel), and c) to pronounce the sentence correctly (Vous n'etes pas Americain - I omitted the accents because I don't know how to properly depict them here). I didn't manage, and I don't see how an average learner without prior knowledge of Fench could without pressing the pause button. In the end, small irritations like these shattered my confidence in the Pimsleur appproach, all the more since the course offers so much mindless (albeit potentially useful) drill in other places. I still use it as a supplement to other learning tools, but I wouldn't recommend it as a sole starting point. Edited by Betjeman on 03 May 2012 at 9:14am 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| atama warui Triglot Senior Member Japan Joined 4699 days ago 594 posts - 985 votes Speaks: German*, English, Japanese | Message 44 of 48 04 May 2012 at 12:43pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Funny. I started with Pimsleur Japanese and never had such a problem. Never had to repeat a lesson either, because I always was at or better than 80%.
After Pimsleur, I did MT. After that, I was pretty much able to go on on my own, picking my next subjects for study and so on, from free resources on the net. Both Pimsleur and MT should go at least 2x as long IMHO. I miss them, they gave me a warm and fuzzy course-womb feeling. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Betjeman Groupie Germany Joined 6141 days ago 85 posts - 204 votes Speaks: German* | Message 45 of 48 04 May 2012 at 1:02pm | IP Logged | |||||
Then you must be much better than me and should feel deservedly admired and worshipped. But then again, Japanese is ridiculously easy compared to French. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| dampingwire Bilingual Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4663 days ago 1185 posts - 1513 votes Speaks: English*, Italian*, French Studies: Japanese | Message 46 of 48 04 May 2012 at 2:04pm | IP Logged | |||||
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My first audio course was the MT Japanese Foundation Course from the library. A nice
gentle introduction. 8CDs so approximately 8 hours. I liked the fact that it would explain various grammar points as it went along. (Not in any real depth, and no mention that it's using the "polite" form and certainly no hint that a "plain" form even exists). Nevertheless, overall well worth the time for me at that point in my learning journey. I borrowed two other short audio courses but they were not that useful (very touristy). I'm now working my way through Pimsleur Japanese III 9having been through I and II). I listen to a lesson twice on the way to work and the next lesson twice on the way back. I quite often do not manage to give the correct response in the gap provided, but I can then repeat it in the gap after the native speaker answers. Sometimes I find it more useful to listen to the native speaker's answer carefully rather than carry on with any response I might have already started. I suppose I could pause it to give myself time but I'm driving too so I don't want too many distractions. I expect to go through all 90 lessons again at least once after having worked through the transcripts to identify the vocabulary that's not yet at the tip of my tongue. My view is that MT did a better job of the explanations, Pimsleur covers more ground (but then that's comparing 45h of Pimsleaur to 8h of MT, so it's a tad unfair). I've found both of them useful in their own way. I've not come across any other audio course that comes close to either of these. I'm planning to go through a video course (by NHK I think, Basic Japanese or something similar) once I'm done with Pimsleur. There's also a York University (Canada) course that's online and I'll try to go through that too. They both look to be quite useful. As an aside, my daughter is now taking a language course at university so I had a chance to spend a few minutes listening to some MT Advanced Italian and a few minutes of Pimsleur Italian III. MT's Italian accent is quite pronounced, but not horrible and the language usage seems good. (I'm still glad that MT Japanese uses a native speaker though :-)). The brief Pimsleur snippet seemed quite useful too. The depressing thing is that they both appeared to be relatively basic, certainly not what I'd call "advanced". You'd not understand the news or a TV series with just either of these. The depressing part is, of course, that I assume that's also true of the Japanese courses :-(. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| shmjay Newbie United States Joined 5360 days ago 12 posts - 19 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Russian, German, Spanish | Message 47 of 48 06 May 2012 at 11:38pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I don’t think the intention is to reply within the time of the gap they provide. I often hit the pause button.
But yes, I wish they had more levels. However, once you complete Comprehensive III you have a sound grasp of the very basics and can move on to other books. Edited by shmjay on 06 May 2012 at 11:40pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| dbag Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5020 days ago 605 posts - 1046 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish | Message 48 of 48 07 May 2012 at 12:19pm | IP Logged | |||||
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The reason I think Pimsleur is good is that it helps you get your mouth round new
sounds. I think you need to know when to move on though. For example I only did a few lessons of pimsleur 3 before moving on, as I had hit a point of diminishing returns and was beginning to get seriously BORED. I find it strange that people are still comparing the pros and cons of Pimsleur and MT, as if they where only going to do one of them. Do them both! They complement each other magnificently. And don't kid yourselves, after doing both courses you still have a longroad ahead..... 6 persons have voted this message useful |
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