|
 |
FSI Chinese questions: 过 vs. 了 | ||
Share with:
| ||
 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| Crush Tetraglot Senior Member ChinaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5856 days ago 1622 posts - 2299 votes  Speaks: English*, Spanish, Mandarin, Esperanto Studies: Basque | Message 1 of 7 29 May 2012 at 12:23pm | IP Logged |
|
I have a couple questions about the usage of 过 and 了 in the following sentences (from Module 5, unit 8):
1. 这些地方你都去过了吧？ 2. 你们去过什么地方？南京上海都去了。 In the first, i don't remember ever seeing 过 and 了 used together like that. I would've justed used 过. Is there any difference/change in meaning? In the second, why is 过 used instead of 了? Thanks! 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| lindseylbb Bilingual Triglot Groupie ChinaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4923 days ago 92 posts - 126 votes Speaks: Mandarin*, Cantonese*, English Studies: Japanese, Korean | Message 2 of 7 29 May 2012 at 4:04pm | IP Logged |
|
mmm, from a native's point, I dont see the difference. Maybe 了吧is slightly emphasized. But again, what do a native know about grammar?
Anyway, in the second question, I realised when you use 过，the period is more...past. and 了mentions to recent past. 你们如果什么地方asks about all the place you have been, while 我们去了only refers to the place you have been in the latest trip. Dont believe me. Edited by lindseylbb on 29 May 2012 at 4:07pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Beysic Diglot Newbie United States Joined 5057 days ago 20 posts - 39 votes Speaks: English*, Mandarin Studies: Japanese, Korean | Message 3 of 7 30 May 2012 at 11:03pm | IP Logged |
|
'了' has multiple usages, one of which is simply to emphasize the preceding clause.
That's how it's being used in the first example; it has nothing to do with expressing past tense. The second example seems to me to be one speaker following up on his own question before the other side answers. If so, he's saying "Which places have you guys been too? Nanjing and Shanghai, of course." I'm guessing the speaker already knew the people he was questioning had been to those two cities. If that "南京上海都去了“ is in response to the question, though, I suppose the speaker simply changed perspectives to show he was talking about a specific or recent trip. It's equivalent to saying in English "A)Where have you guys been? B) We went to Shanghai & Nanjing." Mildly awkward but not problematic. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Crush Tetraglot Senior Member ChinaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5856 days ago 1622 posts - 2299 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Mandarin, Esperanto Studies: Basque | Message 4 of 7 31 May 2012 at 9:41am | IP Logged |
|
Thank you, both of you! Everyone i've spoken to has said that the first sentence would mean pretty much the same thing without the 了 marker, i'm not exactly sure what it's purpose is there but i won't worry too much about it for now.
The second sentence was about a recent trip (三两个月以前） someone made and is between two speakers, each sentence was said by one speaker, i guess i didn't separate that very well. Speaker 1: 她请我陪她一起去旅行。三个月以前我在广州 得时候，那个时候她还不知道能不能来。 Speaker 2: 你们去过什么地方？ Speaker 1: 南京上海都去了。 It might be something that FSI will cover in more depth again later on, so i might be stressing about nothing. Your English example makes sense and even sounds ok, i didn't know that/if 过 could be used for the recent past like in English. Again, the people i've asked here have all told me that either marker would be fine, 过 or 了. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| tangerine Newbie England Joined 5202 days ago 19 posts - 38 votes Studies: Mandarin | Message 5 of 7 02 June 2012 at 6:12am | IP Logged |
|
According to my understanding, 过 is used to indicate past experiences. In this way, it's quite similar to the English present perfect tense (I have done).
比如： 那部电影你看过没有？ 没看过 我一直想去日本旅行，但我还没去过。 了, as you know, is used to indicate that an action is complete. It is NOT the past tense in Mandarin. Mandarin does not have tenses (well, a past tense at least). As I understand it, 过 and 了 can be used together for emphasis, but I have also heard (and used them myself) to talk about very recently completed actions. 比如： （服务员）你想点什么? (顾客）不用，我点过了。 你没有给他打电话吗？ 打过了，但是没人接。 This is how I understand and use 过 and 了, and it seems to work out fine. That said, Mandarin is a very flexible language and you'll be sure to find exceptions to every grammar 'rule' (which are made up by people to try and understand what's going on in the language). 3 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Crush Tetraglot Senior Member ChinaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5856 days ago 1622 posts - 2299 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Mandarin, Esperanto Studies: Basque | Message 6 of 7 05 June 2012 at 7:21pm | IP Logged |
|
Thanks, i think it will be a while still before i really start to absorb Mandarin.
1 person has voted this message useful | |
| JasonCZS Bilingual Super Polyglot Newbie China Joined 4599 days ago 8 posts - 13 votes Speaks: English, Mandarin*, Cantonese*, GermanB1, Latin, Hungarian, Ancient Greek, Spanish, Swedish, Turkish, Esperanto, Arabic (Egyptian) Studies: Biblical Hebrew, Finnish, Polish, Italian, Modern Hebrew, French, Hindi, Sanskrit, Lithuanian, Estonian, Irish, Scottish Gaelic, Slovak, Arabic (Gulf) | Message 7 of 7 06 June 2012 at 4:22am | IP Logged |
|
verb+过+object+了 can be considered as a temporal phrase functioning as already + perfect tense. It tends to emphasize that the action has been over, 过 meaning literally "pass". For example: 我做过作业了 means "I HAVE alredy finished my homework", and the implication might be "I don't need to worry about homework now because I've done it", while 我做了作业 or 我做作业了 simply means "I did my homework", a simple description for an action. I believe you can find approximately equivalent differences in the comparison and contrast between perfect and past tense in English. When expressing negation, however, 了 isn't necessary, e.g.我没做过作业 means "I have NEVER done any homework", implying a sense of "never ever in my life"; 我还没做作业 means "I haven't done the homework YET"; 我没做作业 means "I didn't do my homework(referring to a specific homework)"
5 persons have voted this message useful |
If you wish to post a reply to this topic you must first login. If you are not already registered you must first register
|  | 
Printable version
|
| Copyright 2024 FX Micheloud - All rights reserved No part of this website may be copied by any means without my written authorization. |
