|
 |
The Ukraine or Ukraine - use of article | ||
Share with:
| ||
 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| Ogrim Heptaglot Senior Member France Joined 4630 days ago 991 posts - 1896 votes  Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, French, Romansh, German, Italian Studies: Russian, Catalan, Latin, Greek, Romanian | Message 1 of 7 07 June 2012 at 4:25pm | IP Logged | ||
|
Here is an interesting article from BBC about the use of the definite article with the names of countries etc.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18233844 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| rivere123 Senior Member United States Joined 4821 days ago 129 posts - 182 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French | Message 2 of 7 08 June 2012 at 12:45am | IP Logged | ||
|
Nice article.However, "the" Ukrainenhasn't disappeared at all from my point of view, and I've never heard of
the Sudan, the Yemen, or the Lebanon. Edited by rivere123 on 08 June 2012 at 12:45am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
 newyorkeric Diglot Moderator Singapore Joined 6370 days ago 1598 posts - 2174 votes Speaks: English*, Italian Studies: Mandarin, Malay Personal Language Map | Message 3 of 7 08 June 2012 at 7:06am | IP Logged | ||
|
I didn't read the article but unlike rivere123 I remember clearly when the news and such stopped using the
when talking about Ukraine. It seemed to happen very quickly. Edited by newyorkeric on 08 June 2012 at 7:07am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| lingua nova Newbie United States Joined 4546 days ago 25 posts - 39 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Indonesian, Tagalog, French | Message 4 of 7 08 June 2012 at 6:54pm | IP Logged | ||
Really? I've heard "the Sudan" quite often. I've perhaps once or twice heard "the Lebanon," and it seemed very archaic. I've never heard "the Yemen," though. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Gosiak Triglot Senior Member Poland Joined 5117 days ago 241 posts - 361 votes Speaks: Polish*, English, German Studies: Norwegian, Welsh | Message 5 of 7 08 June 2012 at 10:52pm | IP Logged | ||
|
I had a lecture on articles this semester and as far as I remember it should be Ukraine since it regained its independence. The name is not descriptive in any way and arbitrary proper names of the countries are not supposed to have an article attached. Places that have clearly cut borders do not have articles, rivers do not have such borders.
"Countries like the United States of America and the United Kingdom also carry the definite article because they are compound nouns with adjectives." This has more to do with those names describing political orders of both countries. "In general, use of the definite article is unpredictable. Why should it be London but The Thames? There is no logic for it yet this is the way it is. " This is not true, one knows where a city begins and where it ends. "Groups of islands like the Maldives and the Bahamas. You wouldn't say 'I'm going to Maldives, you'd say 'I'm going to the Maldives' because it's a geographical area." It's not about a geographical area, it's a collective name. The Hague is somehow tricky because its original name has an article that is perserved in English. There are many rules governing the usage of English articles but with some effort they can be mastered. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| lingua nova Newbie United States Joined 4546 days ago 25 posts - 39 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Indonesian, Tagalog, French | Message 6 of 7 08 June 2012 at 11:02pm | IP Logged | ||
If I understood you correctly, you're for all practical purposes saying the same thing they are, since besides political structure--whether that be "kingdom," "statess," "democratic republic," "emirates," etc.--there really aren't any other examples of "compound" (I assume they meant collective?) nouns in country names. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Gosiak Triglot Senior Member Poland Joined 5117 days ago 241 posts - 361 votes Speaks: Polish*, English, German Studies: Norwegian, Welsh | Message 7 of 7 08 June 2012 at 11:16pm | IP Logged | ||
|
It's not entirely the same because in this case motives of giving such names are important, they are collective and descriptive. This rule applies not only to country names, you can have a name of let's say a restaurant that has a compound noun with an adjective but without knowing first what kind of business it is you would never guess it by that name.
Edit: The name could fulfill the gramatical rules suggested in the article and still be arbitrary and written with no article. Edited by Gosiak on 08 June 2012 at 11:24pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
If you wish to post a reply to this topic you must first login. If you are not already registered you must first register
|  | 
Printable version
|
| Copyright 2024 FX Micheloud - All rights reserved No part of this website may be copied by any means without my written authorization. |
