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How should I learn English? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| suitbar33 Diglot Newbie China Joined 4711 days ago 9 posts - 11 votes Speaks: Mandarin*, EnglishC1 | Message 1 of 13 10 June 2012 at 6:37am | IP Logged |
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Dear all,
I am a 2nd year student studying psychology here in Sydney uni. It is week 13 and we got our report back which was due in week 9. My grade is 59/100. My tutor said I used too many unnecessarily complicated vocabs and such structure renders my sentences 'ridiculously long'(quote) as conciseness is the key to a higher mark in the faculty of science.... I guess for those who may be familiar with classical conditioning and the law of effect may agree it can be hard to shape one's tendency of making long-winded style of writing into sth more succinct with successive approximations (if one's responses receive too many satisfactory outcomes on further positively reinforcing one's penchant of engaing in such responses! In my case, we Chinese love learning by rote without fully digesting what we have learnt, hehe)...I understand everybody has his/her own approach when it comes to the language learning, but it seems my 10-ish years of attempting to master English yields relatively few "reinforcers", with respect to my grade!(The mean is 64for this report.) My tutor is kindly enough to refer me to the learning centre in our uni and it hosts workshops on a weekly basis. Still, I do wonder how you guys go about this global language in relation to your linguistic self-improvement, regardless of whether speaking from a native/non-native's point of view on this subject matter? I really wish to gain your insights on further honing my English and I do hope such academic thwart of being on the verge of flanking does not discourage myself from exploring the language it is based on to a deeper extent! In order to do that, I do appreciate your help if possible, especially folks with similar experiences :-). Personally my daily routine starts with opening a few Guardian articles and trying to translate them mentally in a bi-directional fashion (courtesy from Luka!) after I get up. And I head for uni where I would always meet some friendly Aussie fellow students to practice my speaking skills during my lectures on a regular basis..... I also do intend of becoming a simultaneous interpreter here in Australia and surely expanding my vocabulary is definitely a prerequisite, but I guess I am still a bit puzzled over how to overcome this plateau-like phase of only maintaining a pass on all my subjects (no HDs...) PS: My tutor also suggested me to find someone to proofread my writing. Can u do that via Internet? My classmates would just be as busy as they should be with their own academic commitments and I guess no tutors are allowed to peek students' work in advance prior to the submission.... PS2: I wonder if any HTLALers can offer me some recommended books/ websites/ resources in general for the purpose I described in the subject title to be able to write in a near-native level of proficiency in any of my upcoming uni assignments? Thanks for taking time to read this, Chenyang Edited by suitbar33 on 10 June 2012 at 6:45am 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Hampie Diglot Senior Member Sweden Joined 6650 days ago 625 posts - 1009 votes  Speaks: Swedish*, English Studies: Latin, German, Mandarin | Message 2 of 13 10 June 2012 at 3:07pm | IP Logged |
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It's sometimes hard to know when to use what words. You mix "more succinct with successive approximations"
with "u" for you and "uni" for university and many ellipses (... ... ... ...). You have to be consistent in regard to the stylistic level that you've chosen. In terms of sentence length and choice of vocabulary scientific English tend to prefer short and easy rather than complicated and long. If a sentence fills an entire paragraph: you're doing something wrong. See if there are unnecessary words in there, or if it perhaps could be broken up into two or three sentences instead. "I really wish to gain your insights on further honing my English and I do hope such academic thwart of being on the verge of flanking does not discourage myself from exploring the language it is based on to a deeper extent! " This, e.g., is very long and contains a lot of words I've never seen or that I feel are overly pretentious for the situation being. "gain insights on further honing my English" is to me almost poetic, rather than normal colloquial style of speaking and writing. Just saying "on how to improve my English" would be shorter, less odd, and easier for people to understand. "such academic thwart of being on the verge of flanking" could almost be replaced by "it". I get the impression that you try to hard to be eloquent that it turns out over-done, overly pretentious and on the verge of being ridiculous. As for myself, I never do anything in particular to study English other than just reading books and watching TV series. Edited by Hampie on 10 June 2012 at 3:08pm 7 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Jinx Triglot Senior Member Germany reverbnation.co Joined 5684 days ago 1085 posts - 1879 votes Speaks: English*, German, French Studies: Catalan, Dutch, Esperanto, Croatian, Serbian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Italian, Spanish, Yiddish | Message 3 of 13 10 June 2012 at 6:04pm | IP Logged |
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For improving your writing, I highly recommend the website lang-8.com – you can post short texts about anything there and get free corrections from native speakers, as well as their comments (if you're lucky!) on what you're doing right and wrong. I've found it to be a huge help, myself.
2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| maydayayday Pentaglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5210 days ago 564 posts - 839 votes Speaks: English*, German, Italian, SpanishB2, FrenchB2 Studies: Arabic (Egyptian), Russian, Swedish, Turkish, Polish, Persian, Vietnamese Studies: Urdu | Message 4 of 13 10 June 2012 at 6:22pm | IP Logged |
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I don't believe there is much wrong with your English - after all your profile says you are C1. That's pretty good.
I would hazard a guess that you think out your answers in 'formal' Mandarin and translate from there ? Or you don't know the subject so flounce it up a bit ? A better strategy might be to write the answer as if you were talking to a slightly less able fellow student in more colloquial language just as if you were explaining the latest lecture over a coffee in the bar. That way you get to put in just the right amount of explanation of advanced terms. I see a lot of documents [I assess/analyse venture capital bids] from young professionals who are almost fluent in conversation and understanding but when it comes to writing a paper go back to 'chunk' translating from their own tongue. It's not wrong but what comes out is sometimes clunky. On the good side: 59% on a class mean of 64% when it's not your L1 is nothing to be ashamed of. You know the bell curve! Just cut out the flowery stuff and write like you were talking to a mate. 5 persons have voted this message useful | |
| jason6 Diglot Newbie United States jasonanders Joined 4929 days ago 6 posts - 22 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish | Message 5 of 13 10 June 2012 at 7:05pm | IP Logged |
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I think you need to find examples of a more appropriate style of writing and to emulate that style. I recommend you read Strunk and White's Elements of Style and then as many Hemingway books as you can.
Lang-8.com is a great resource to have someone proofread your writing. I would start by submitting one or two paragraphs at a time. It is difficult to get good feedback on things that are too long. After reading some Hemingway (or someone else you want to emulate) take a short passage and try to write something just like it. Change the topic a bit, but use some of the same words and sentence constructions. The more you practice the better you will be able to write in the same style on totally different topics. And each time before you submit something, proofread it your self. Go through each sentence and ask yourself if there is a simpler way you could rewrite it. You mentioned that you want to expand your vocabulary. I wouldn't worry about that. I think your vocabulary is fine. Instead, you should work on the fine points of using the vocabulary you have. Instead of learning one word at a time, learn chunks with prepositions. For example, you could review constructions like these (from your writing): I also do intend of becoming -> I intend to become suggested me -> suggested [something] to me, or suggested that I ... would just be as busy -> would be just as busy Above all, read more. With reading you will naturally pick up more vocabulary, but you will also get a better feel for how to use your vocab in context with proper prepositions. And like Mayday said, your English isn't bad. More than anything, you need a change in perspective when writing. Instead of trying to impress with your vocabulary and phrases, work to show how simply and concisely you can express something. Best of luck and if you submit something on lang-8, I'd be happy to correct it. My name is jason6 there. Edited by jason6 on 10 June 2012 at 8:47pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Fenn Groupie United Kingdom Joined 4882 days ago 51 posts - 119 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Italian | Message 6 of 13 10 June 2012 at 8:36pm | IP Logged |
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Your English is brilliant, in terms of vocab its better than mine and it's my native
language. It's just most of what you typed was very unnatural. It comes across somewhere between a teenager with a thesaurus and a jumped up middle manager who uses long, borderline demeaning, vocabulary to prove to everyone he deserves the position. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |
| s0fist Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5037 days ago 260 posts - 445 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: Sign Language, German, Spanish, French | Message 7 of 13 10 June 2012 at 11:11pm | IP Logged |
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There doesn't seem to be much wrong with your English.
Being a psych major you probably want to sound more sophisticated by increasing grammatical and vocabulary complexity. That's fine! But you have to understand one point about increasing complexity: appearing smart and sophisticated is a fine balance. If you make something simple more complex and more complex, eventually it transfers into the realm of absurdity and starts to seem like you're poking fun or intentionally obscuring what you mean (e.g. "academic thwart of being on the verge of flanking"). And also keep in mind that simple ideas can be deep and sophisticated without complex phrasing. So go find that line empirically and stick with it. Ask your tutors or friends which phrases are too much and eventually you'll just know. I don't think there's any other way than practice. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| lingua nova Newbie United States Joined 4546 days ago 25 posts - 39 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Indonesian, Tagalog, French | Message 8 of 13 11 June 2012 at 12:03am | IP Logged |
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Hey Chenyang,
First of all, I'd like to say that you have some of the most sophisticated vocabulary that I've ever seen written by someone from China who has not lived in an Anglophone area for a long period of time. So kudos to you! That's the good. The bad is that I indeed see where your problem is, and I imagine it is a difficult problem. Your vocabulary, as I mentioned, is superb, but how you use is rambles at times, which makes your sentences convoluted. English is my native language, so unfortunately I have no resources to point you towards. I have helped native speakers of English who were poor writers, though, and would imagine the advice I gave them wouldn't be much different than the advice I'd give you, since your English is so strong. That advice would be: (1) continue getting personalized attention from a tutor, and (2) read a lot. You need to get a feel for what level of English is acceptable for academic writing. Certainly you don't want to get colloquial when writing a paper, but you also don't want to sound like Henry James, which is whose style yours reminds me of right now. If you aren't familiar with him, he's considered one of the more vexingly complicated writers we've ever produced! Perhaps you could ask some of your classmates who regularly receive the highest grades if you can look over their papers (AFTER they've been submitted and graded, of course!) That will not only help you in general with your language skills, but even moreso, give you a better understanding of just what your professor specifically likes and doesn't like. I see that you also asked if anyone could help you proofread your writing. Well, just for fun, I've gone over your solicitation and made some edits. Even so, it's not the best piece of writing, but I tried to keep it as true to your style as possible. For example, I retained some of the slightly awkward phrasing so as to give you an idea of how you can improve what you've written without asking you to overhaul everything. Note: Your post clocked in at exactly 500 words. What I came up with was 379, or roughly 25% slimmer. "Dear all, I am a 2nd year student studying psychology here at Sydney University. It is week 13 and we recently got back our reports which we submitted in week 9. My grade is a 59/100, with the class mean being a 64. My tutor said I used too many unnecessarily complicated vocabulary words and my sentences were 'ridiculously long.' Conciseness is the key to a higher mark in the science faculty. I guess for those who may be familiar with classical conditioning and the law of effect, they may agree that it can be hard to change one's affinity for bombastic writing if one continually receives praise for such writing. It doesn't help that I'm Chinese, a people who are well known for learning by rote without necessarily digesting it properly. I understand everybody has his/her own approach when it comes to language learning, but it seems that in my ~10 years of attempting to master English, I've received few of these proverbial 'reinforcers.' My tutor was kind enough to refer me to the learning centre at our university, which hosts weekly workshops. Still, I wonder just how you guys go about improving your English? I'd really like to hear your suggestions, because I don't want to receive more poor grades. I'm on the verge of flunking, and I'm afraid I'll become discouraged from exploring the language further. I'd appreciate any help, especially from folks with similar experiences. My daily routine starts with opening a few Guardian articles and trying to translate them mentally in a bi-directional fashion. Then I head for uni, where I always meet some friendly Aussie schoolmate with which to practice my speaking skills. I intend to become an interpreter here in Australia, so surely expanding my vocabulary is necessary, but I guess I am still a bit puzzled on how to improve my grades. PS: My tutor also suggested I find someone to proofread my writing. My classmates are just as busy as I am, and I doubt tutors are allowed to see students' work prior to submission, so I really need outside help. PPS: I wonder if any HTLALers can recommend me some books/websites/etc regarding how to write at a near-native level? Thanks for taking time to read this, Chenyang" Edited by lingua nova on 11 June 2012 at 12:04am 3 persons have voted this message useful |
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