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Spontaneous learning of lang sim. to L1? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| prz_ Tetraglot Senior Member Poland last.fm/user/prz_rul Joined 4859 days ago 890 posts - 1190 votes  Speaks: Polish*, English, Bulgarian, Croatian Studies: Slovenian, Macedonian, Persian, Russian, Turkish, Ukrainian, Dutch, Swedish, German, Italian, Armenian, Kurdish | Message 1 of 10 29 August 2012 at 11:50pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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What I mean is an idea of one Polish website - and I guess not only that website - to learn, if your native language is very similar to your L1 - only the words that are very different from your L1 (in my case - and case of that website - they would be Slovak and especially Ukrainian, presumably also Kashubian, Silesian and Sorbian x2). The rest will somehow come by reading and talking.
I want to ask you if you agree with that statement - will the words, even very similar, just come in a magical way? Edited by prz_ on 29 August 2012 at 11:51pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| montmorency Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4828 days ago 2371 posts - 3676 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Danish, Welsh | Message 2 of 10 29 August 2012 at 11:59pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I assume you mean "if your target language is similar to your L1"?
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| LaughingChimp Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 4699 days ago 346 posts - 594 votes Speaks: Czech* | Message 3 of 10 30 August 2012 at 12:10am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I agree, except the magical way, there is nothing magical about that. Edited by LaughingChimp on 30 August 2012 at 1:50am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Majka Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic kofoholici.wordpress Joined 4657 days ago 307 posts - 755 votes Speaks: Czech*, German, English Studies: French Studies: Russian | Message 4 of 10 30 August 2012 at 12:36am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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It is all a question of exposure. If reading (and understanding) the target language comes easy, even effortless, AND you get enough exposure to both written and spoken language, you will learn to understand it. The idea of comprehensive input works here to the max - you get automatically the 80% comprehensive text with every native material.
Speaking the language is different kettle of fish. You would still need to read through a grammar or have the differences explained to you or grasp them from reading AND you would still need to practice speaking the target language. It won't come magically but still very easily compared to a more foreign language. Point in case - up to my generation (I am in my forties), almost all the Czech people understood Slovak effortlessly, on par with their native language. You would notice the few different words, few different grammar points but otherwise even children could read Slovak and understand TV. BUT: We didn't speak Slovak. The understanding was so great that everybody would speak his/hers native language in a conversation and we were switching languages. Most people simply didn't bother to learn to speak the opposite language. Currently, the situation is different. We are lacking the exposure in everyday life. Some young people claim not to understand Slovak at all, which is a completely alien concept to me, and most of them have to work on their understanding. They still get by, there is no real language barrier, but the understanding takes more effort. Think of it as of difference between a C2 or strong C1 level language and a strong B2 language. In my opinion, in such case the exposure makes all the difference. Many people in Silesia understand and speak Polish not because they have studied the language but because they have been exposed to the (similar) language from childhood. And they speak it because they took the bother to learn to speak - probably not in any classroom environment or even self-study - but they went and started to speak to native speakers in their language. 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6597 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 5 of 10 30 August 2012 at 1:03am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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You may want to read what Gunnemark said about transparent and non-transparent words.
I pretty much do that in the three big IE groups and I'm satisfied with the results... Actually I don't even bother to learn all that many 'different' words, only if something is very interesting and worth SRS'ing. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Wulfgar Senior Member United States Joined 4671 days ago 404 posts - 791 votes Speaks: English* | Message 6 of 10 30 August 2012 at 7:02am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I think Majka makes some excellent points; I wouldn't assume things will happen spontaneously in every way. But I
will mention one thing - learning the similar words is really important to me. Otherwise, I will constantly make pronunciation mistakes. Of course, conversation is my most prized goal, so this might not affect you. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6597 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 7 of 10 30 August 2012 at 1:43pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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FYI, those for whom conversation isn't a high priority aren't necessarily okay with making pronunciation mistakes. They may just prefer not to have conversations, especially if the ones they can have would be quite artificial anyway.
Similar words can be a waste of effort if you haven't had enough input and want to speak when you can barely understand anything. With input, they'll stick far more easily, and if you use plenty of audio materials and are aware of the phonetical differences, there's no reason to worry about pronunciation mistakes. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Wulfgar Senior Member United States Joined 4671 days ago 404 posts - 791 votes Speaks: English* | Message 8 of 10 31 August 2012 at 8:02am | IP Logged | ||||||||
If it's not a high priority, it's not a high priority, right? If it's not ok, make it a high priority. Aren't all conversations artificial?
Speaking when you barely understand anything...like you have a lot of active vocabulary, but little passive vocabulary? A well rounded learner probably wouldn't get into that situation, But if you do that, then you are saying studying similar words would be a waste of effort? Why?
Lots of input is essential, and worrying never helps anything. But studying similar words - very good for one's pronunciation. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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