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Excuses for not learning a language | ||
Tags: Monolingual | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| beano Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4622 days ago 1049 posts - 2152 votes  Speaks: English*, German Studies: Russian, Serbian, Hungarian | Message 1 of 20 04 September 2012 at 5:51pm | IP Logged | ||
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There are many reasons given by people as to why they live in or have frequent contact with a particular country but don't speak its language: I'm too old, I was rubbish in language class at school, everyone here speaks English etc etc. In almost all cases it boils down to the person not actually wanting to make the effort to learn.
But I heard a new one today while reading the blog of an Englishman living in Moscow. His contention is that you shouldn't try and learn Russian unless you have already learned another language, otherwise you will find it impossible. So nobody should bother with a foreign language unless they already know a foreign language....wouldn't that create something of a vicious circle of monolingualism? 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 7156 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 2 of 20 04 September 2012 at 10:39pm | IP Logged | ||
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Not really. His idea is that one shouldn't learn Russian unless one has already acheived fluency in another language as a foreign one. He would conceivably "allow" for foreigners to learn any other language as the first foreign one, just not Russian because of his perception of its intractability, I wonder if he'd feel the same if I were to suggest that he couldn't learn Korean as his first foreign language as it'd be impossible without his having been "primed" by having already studied another foreign language to fluency.
This bloke is full of $#¡t, and sounds like he's trying to make excuses for not learning much Russian while living in Moscow. He overlooks the effect of mandatory instruction in Russian in the ex-Soviet satellite states as some originally monoglot Eastern Europeans did learn Russian as their first foreign language to fluency and haven't forget their lessons (as dreary or unpleasant as the experience of Soviet domination was for some of the locals). He also ignores the American or British students, monoglots as many are, who learn Russian as part of a degree in Russian studies (complete with a term or two in Russia) and acheive fluency by the end of their studies. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Spanky Senior Member Canada Joined 5956 days ago 1021 posts - 1714 votes Studies: French | Message 3 of 20 04 September 2012 at 11:14pm | IP Logged | ||
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I have two excuses, only one of which is true.
1. I am a complete dolt who is constitutionally incapable of actually learning another language (even one which stares at me each morning from the back of a bilingual Count Chocula cereal box) and who frankly should be happy he was able to catch on to even his first language; or 2. I am unprepared to risk the wrath of either the king of the Sumerian gods (cf Enmerker) or the Christian God (cf Genesis 11, the Babel part) by attempting to undo that which hath been rendered unto man. Concerning the discussion above, I agree with Chung. Having said that, I wonder whether there may be some merit to a modified version of what the blogger was saying: perhaps that Russian is a particularly difficult foreign language for a first time FL learner to tackle and one that would be an easier task for someone who has already gone through the process of learning another easier or more familiar language. I am not sure that I would accept that conclusion, though I am reminded of the (perhaps controversial) esperanto-related studies discussed here quite some time ago. Either way, good luck heretics. Edited by Spanky on 04 September 2012 at 11:24pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 7156 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 4 of 20 04 September 2012 at 11:59pm | IP Logged | ||
The short answer is that it'd be relative, but what still gets my goat is that he presents his advice (as I understand it from Beano) without any qualification. I for one would rather get driven nuts by trying to master Estonian declension than to go through the same with Portuguese conjugation even though my effort to acquire Portuguese should be much less strenuous as I could draw on my fluency in the related English and French. My lack of motivation to learn Portuguese compared to doing the same for Estonian would more than offset any inherent advantage I could use to accelerate my attaining mastery of Portuguese. If a monoglot of English has his/her heart set on Russian, then who am I to dissuade that person by making him/her do detours to "prime" him/herself because of my judgement on some characteristics in Russian? In the same vein, I have no problem talking about the benefits of knowing some Estonian or Finnish before starting to learn Northern Saami but I'd never discourage someone like Kafea whose heart has been set on learning Northern Saami without a priming in Estonian or Finnish which in any case don't seem interesting enough on their own to that person. The only time where I'd regularly suggest learning a second language before tackling a third is if the useful resources for that third language use that second language as the intermediary language. Even for Northern Saami, I wouldn't always make this suggestion since there's a growing stock of resources of aids in English, and there seem to be native speakers out there who could help but already know the native language of the monoglot learner (in this case a Saami member on Fluentin3months expressed an interest to help anyone learn Northern Saami). 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| JiriT Triglot Groupie Czech Republic Joined 4797 days ago 60 posts - 95 votes Speaks: Czech*, English, German | Message 5 of 20 05 September 2012 at 1:33am | IP Logged | ||
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I believe it is a matter of the motivation of each person. A person who is not
motivated to learn a language will not learn it. Such a person can live the country where the language is spoken or in a bilingual region and s/he knows only very little. Usually people learn something when they are exposed to the language but they could learn many times more, with not so much effort. And there are people who do not have good conditions for learning a language, e.g. they have only poor textbooks with obsolete language and with mistakes, textbooks written by non-native speakers etc. They do not have an access to the real language but despite this they learn a lot. They learn all that is possible in their situation. I understand people who do not want to learn foreign languages. It need some effort, in fact, a lot of effort. And I do not believe it is very useful to learn a language and reach only the A1 level. I believe, it is better to invest more and to reach a level, when I can use the language more than asking the way or choosing from the menu in a restaurant. Native English speakers do not have to learn other languages and despite of this they will be understood all over the world. Language learning is a must for people from other nations. Another thing is, when you learn a foreign language, your educational level is higher. You are not educated when you can speak you mother tongue. You are not much educated when you can speak two languages when you grew up in a bilingual environment. And a language is always connected with the culture. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Wulfgar Senior Member United States Joined 4671 days ago 404 posts - 791 votes Speaks: English* | Message 6 of 20 05 September 2012 at 3:21am | IP Logged | ||
How about a link? Maybe he'd like some healthy comments. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| prz_ Tetraglot Senior Member Poland last.fm/user/prz_rul Joined 4859 days ago 890 posts - 1190 votes Speaks: Polish*, English, Bulgarian, Croatian Studies: Slovenian, Macedonian, Persian, Russian, Turkish, Ukrainian, Dutch, Swedish, German, Italian, Armenian, Kurdish | Message 7 of 20 05 September 2012 at 10:13am | IP Logged | ||
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"I'm tireeeeed, and it's too laaaaate (to apologize) and I don't really want tooooo. I'll learn tomorrow...."
1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| irishpolyglot Nonaglot Senior Member Ireland fluentin3months Joined 5633 days ago 285 posts - 892 votes Speaks: Irish, English*, French, Esperanto, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, German, Sign Language Studies: Mandarin | Message 8 of 20 05 September 2012 at 11:43pm | IP Logged | ||
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I find this video (actually about sport) about excuses to be quite relevant.
2 persons have voted this message useful |
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