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Lists vs Flashcards | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Wulfgar Senior Member United States Joined 4671 days ago 404 posts - 791 votes  Speaks: English* | Message 1 of 34 11 September 2012 at 6:14am | IP Logged |
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Which do you think are more effective for language learning - lists or flashcards?
What are the pro's and cons of each? What about using them in combination? Are lists better for certain items and functions, and flashcards better for others? Have you ever used an SRS to space your lists? 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Ari Heptaglot Senior Member Norway Joined 6582 days ago 2314 posts - 5695 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Mandarin, Cantonese Studies: Czech, Latin, German | Message 2 of 34 11 September 2012 at 6:38am | IP Logged |
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What's the difference? Isn't flashcards basically a list that you cut up into pieces to be able to change the order of the items?
3 persons have voted this message useful | |
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6703 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 3 of 34 11 September 2012 at 9:48am | IP Logged |
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The main difference between lists and SRS/flashcards is that you see a whole list which you often have compiled yourself in one fell swoop, and the solutions to the riddles are right at your fingertips - you cover them up if you don't want to see them. With SRS/flashcards you may have chosen the words once, but they pop up like questions at an exam or in a courtroom. I'm sure both alternatives work, but it is a matter of temperament which one you prefer - my allegiance is firmly with the lists.
In the way I use lists there is another difference with SR/flashcards, namely the timescale. It is commonly accepted that spaced repetition is good for you, and it is commonly accepted that the intervals should be longer between each repetition. I believe more in closely spaced repetitions in the beginning, and I use the idea about leaning groups of 5-7 words as a trick which blocks any attempt to learn by simple continuous repetition. And I get enough 'shock treatment' with new words/expressions by reading genuine texts, although there the possible words come from a whole language and not a preselected list or stack. SRS/flashcards operate at the other end of the scale with intervals which are measured at least in days, but in principle it could be months depending on the size of your stack. However there is one kind of list which use the same kind of intervals, namely Huliganov's goldlists. It is harder to point to a 'presentation based' system with short intervals - though lingq and google translate and other systems may fill out the void. Edited by Iversen on 11 September 2012 at 9:49am 5 persons have voted this message useful | |
| DaraghM Diglot Senior Member Ireland Joined 6151 days ago 1947 posts - 2923 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: French, Russian, Hungarian | Message 4 of 34 11 September 2012 at 10:04am | IP Logged |
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I opted for lists, but I don't often use them. I prefer to acquire vocabulary in context by learning Assimil lessons off by heart, using L-R, or reading monolingual dictionaries with good example sentences.
Monolingual dictionary reading is my preferred method at the moment. You don't need to link the word to an L1 hook, and your remain thinking entirely in the target language. The limitation is that it's slower to translate the word into your native language if required. Edited by DaraghM on 11 September 2012 at 10:05am 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| stifa Triglot Senior Member Norway lang-8.com/448715 Joined 4873 days ago 629 posts - 813 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, EnglishC2, German Studies: Japanese, Spanish | Message 5 of 34 11 September 2012 at 10:19am | IP Logged |
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SRS! I have been using Anki for two months now, and I have nearly a 100% retention rate
on mature cards. Memorising wordlists is something I associate with German lessons in 8th grade.... ugh.... I do make all my SRS cards myself, and I started using Japanese definitions only after 1100 cards with English translation. 130 J-J cards and counting :D Anyway, any method that keeps you exposed to the language in its native form is helpful. Edited by stifa on 11 September 2012 at 10:27am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Majka Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic kofoholici.wordpress Joined 4657 days ago 307 posts - 755 votes Speaks: Czech*, German, English Studies: French Studies: Russian | Message 6 of 34 11 September 2012 at 10:43am | IP Logged |
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I am using a whole range of method for vocabulary acquisition, even a combination of physical and Anki flashcards.
I prefer to use different approach at different points, resp. for different uses. - grab a text, filter out new words, put them through text-to-speach and use audio to hammer it in groups of cca 20-50 in my head. Only then, start the listening part of L-R or work through the text if this is for one of my advanced languages. Instead of wordlist, I sometimes write the text or parts of it out. - grab a visual dictionary, open a page, cover the definitions and start naming. Decide if the unknowns are important enough to learn. Learn directly from the dictionary - no link to NL at all. Sometimes, I need to make the same run through NL encyclopedia to get the L1 vocabulary... Instead of wordlist, look at the picture and write the dictionary terms out. - use wordlist for words grabbed from thematic dictionary or use directly this dictionary, if it is well set-up (2 columns, separated in frequent words and words of lower frequency). - flashcards: physical for grammar (french verb forms, prepositions or cases in combination with verbs etc.) and ANKI for either short useful sentences or simply to keep track of repetitions (lesson texts in my weak languages, grammar points) Handwriting problematic words or sentences is very important for me. Ideally, it would be a big part of my learning - probably meaning the use of wordlists for all the vocabulary acquisition. But because big part of my learning is when driving, walking or doing different chores, I had to switch over to audio. I have left writing as a last resort, when the other methods simply don't work. Edit: sorry, typo in original text Edited by Majka on 11 September 2012 at 12:42pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | |
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4707 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 7 of 34 11 September 2012 at 12:25pm | IP Logged |
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I have tried both and definitely prefer wordlists. Not only do I have the feeling I
remember those words better (even though that might have to do with it Being Swedish), and even though Anki works fine for me, I prefer wordlists because I get sick of repeating words 6 months to the day I added them. Anki might help, but my memory is not THAT bad that I don't remember those words. Two repetitions tends to suffice in 95% of cases for me, and the words I don't remember are ones I don't use as much anyways. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| montmorency Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4828 days ago 2371 posts - 3676 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Danish, Welsh | Message 8 of 34 11 September 2012 at 12:36pm | IP Logged |
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I tend to Majka's view that there are a range of methods, and a combination of methods
is probably good (and some good ideas there, like the TTS/audio). I think that Iversen's choice of 5-7 words, is partly based on the idea that the short- term memory tends to hold things in roughly that number of "chunks". The so-called rule of 7, I believe. I happened upon a paper (in PDF form) yesterday that suggested perhaps 4 chunks was a more accurate number. http://www.simplypsychology.org/memory.pdf FWIW, when I use wordlists (which I do every day), I've standardised on groups of 5, simply because it's a nice round number (or ½ a round number :) ), but having said that, I often have 2, 3 or 4 groups of 5 on the go at any one time. The reason for this is again, the point about postponing writing down any meanings for as long as possible. So I might not write down any meanings until I can write down all 10, 15, or 20 (or think I can), but it varies. I'm still experimenting. :-) I think I agree with Iversen that the more early repetitions you can do, the better, although I admit I'm often personally a bit lazy about putting this into practice. :-( 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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