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Listening practice | ||
Tags: Comprehension/understanding | Listening | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
| allen Newbie United States Joined 5076 days ago 23 posts - 73 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: Korean, Thai | Message 17 of 23 24 December 2010 at 6:16pm | IP Logged | |||||
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In general there are 3 reasons why you may not be able to listen to something.
1. You don't understand the content. 2. You cannot process the content fast enough. 3. You cannot distinguish the words from the sounds. Assuming you really don't have a problem reading, number 1 shouldn't be the problem, because whether something is spoken or written the content can be the same. The major difference between reading and listening is that listening must be processed at the speaker's pace (2) and possibly that the way you vocalize the words in your mind when you're reading something sounds different from the way people are actually speaking them (3). But this would mean that, assuming you can understand the content and process it fast enough, learning to listen should be no more difficult than learning to understand someone with a thick accent in your own native language, which I don't believe is really that difficult at all. So for anyone who says they can read but can't listen, most likely the problem is number 2 (unless they can't really read either!). If the problem really is number 2, just training to read faster should do the trick. Or if you don't want to read, listening to audio clips that are slowed down or on repeat would work. I think a lot of the confusion about learning to listen comes from not being sure which reason is the true reason that you didn't understand something. Having a transcript would help with that. If you read the transcript and can't understand it, then it's problem number 1. If you can't read the transcript as fast as it is being spoken in the audio then it's problem number 2. If it's not either of those then it's probably problem number 3. 7 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| RedBeard Senior Member United States atariage.com Joined 6094 days ago 126 posts - 182 votes Speaks: Ancient Greek* Studies: French, German | Message 18 of 23 24 December 2010 at 8:21pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Repetition is the key. At least, I think that is the approach of Lingq.com - repetition. The lessons are audio with companion text to follow. The idea is to read and re-read them multiple times. Allow yourself to connect the heard-words to the seen-words. Look up any definitions that you still need. Then when you've mastered that lesson, move on to the next (more advanced) one.
(It seems the same reasoning behind L/R-ing a page (or section) until it is firmly grasped. Or re-listening to a song while transcribing the lyrics. Repetition.) In other words:, if you watch anime for language acquisition, watch the same episode over and over again. Don't just move on to the next episode. You need the repetition in order to really learn. Now, Lingq may be wrong, but it sure makes sense to me. Basically, it is the same with Assimil, I guess - you read and re-read. You listen and re-listen. You get multiple exposures to the lesson before you ever get to the next lesson. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Bakunin Diglot Senior Member Switzerland outerkhmer.blogspot. Joined 5122 days ago 531 posts - 1126 votes Speaks: German*, Thai Studies: Khmer | Message 19 of 23 25 December 2010 at 9:11am | IP Logged | |||||
This is not my experience. I seem to learn faster and words or structures seem to stick better if I encounter them in different contexts rather than more often in the same piece of audio or video. Personally, I also enjoy a few repetitions (1-3) of good audio or video stuff, but I try to move on rather sooner than later. However, I appreciate that you experience this differently. There has been a recent study on concept learning in toddlers (not sure how links work here, and I´m too lazy to find out right now, but you can google the title of the study: Exposure to More Diverse Objects Speeds Word Learning in Tots). The authors basically found that toddlers that were exposed to many different sizes and shapes of cups (etc.) were able to grasp the concept 'cup' better than toddlers that only saw one or two types of cups. It seems plausible to me that this result generalizes to a broad range of learning situations that involve pattern recognition, like language learning. (The authors also hypothesize more general benefits of getting varied exposure, in particular increased speed of learning, but this line of thought needs further research.) Edited by Bakunin on 25 December 2010 at 10:17am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| allen Newbie United States Joined 5076 days ago 23 posts - 73 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Korean, Thai | Message 20 of 23 26 December 2010 at 3:04am | IP Logged | |||||
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I also think that some parts of spoken language actually go so fast, or are spoken so
softly or indistinctly that even native speakers would not be able to make out what is being said if those sounds were isolated from its context. But native speakers are familiar enough with their own language that they can fill in those gaps from the surrounding context. Sort of like how it'll be much more difficult for someone learning the language to get through a text with multiple spelling errors, and a native reader could read that same text and not even realize those spelling errors were even there. So I believe it's possible to be under the false impression that we can't hear and distinguish the words from the sounds well enough, when it may be the case that we hear just as well anyone else and simply aren't familiar enough with the language to "fill in" what couldn't be heard in the first place. 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5422 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 21 of 23 26 December 2010 at 9:50pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I think most people find working with some form of transcript (home-made, official, subtitles, captions, etc.) with audio most effective. This would seem to fall under the massive comprehensible input approach. There are some questions as to effectively work with this, but the main idea is that can see, visually and aurally, the patterns that we ultimately have to learn. Part of the problem in the approach is finding the right material. Transcripts of real spontaneous recordings tend to be rare. Most of the time, we have to work with things like movies and television programmings which are not bad but not real. I remember some of the most interesting transcripts that I saw in French were of police recordings of conversations between suspects. That was the real thing and very different from anything scripted. Edited by s_allard on 27 December 2010 at 2:31am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| leosmith Senior Member United States Joined 6542 days ago 2365 posts - 3804 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Tagalog | Message 22 of 23 27 December 2010 at 12:22am | IP Logged | |||||
I think it's more like 95%, but I agree in principle. However, this can be difficult if there aren't adequate materials in the target language. What are you using for Thai? There's a huge gap between learning materials and normal native materials. The best I could do (with the help of a friend) is find movies with Thai subtitles. Still requires a lot of intensive listening/work until extensive listening becomes effective though. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Bakunin Diglot Senior Member Switzerland outerkhmer.blogspot. Joined 5122 days ago 531 posts - 1126 votes Speaks: German*, Thai Studies: Khmer | Message 23 of 23 27 December 2010 at 9:31am | IP Logged | |||||
I agree that finding enough comprehensible input can be difficult for some target languages. Fortunately, for Thai there's more than enough material out there. A beginner can start with educational videos for kids (on animals, counting, comparisons, sounds, everyday objects, everyday activities, school preparation, learning to read, learning to draw and paint, etc.); one of the companies offering such videos is APS Intermusic with more than 40 one-hour videos in that category. Another activity at this stage is finding a language partner and working with picture books for kids that are designed to show the full range of everyday objects and activities; just looking at the pictures and having your language partner describing the stuff should easily provide you with 90% comprehensible input. Once past the total beginner stage, you can move on to watching TV. At the lower intermediate level, I find travel shows, cooking shows, do-it-yourself programs (sports, painting, technical hobbies, etc.), lifestyle and beauty shows very helpful. All of these programs usually show what they are talking about, thus making the input comprehensible. For instance, a travel show with someone walking around somewhere explaining what he or she sees (buildings, food on the market, stuff in museums etc.) is easily comprehensible even for lower intermediates. For Thai, there are several on-demand TV providers online. I use dootv.tv, a UK based provider that stores the Thai TV program for many months back, making it easy to watch several episodes of a suitable program in a row. There are also commercial providers of do-it-yourself videos (on cooking, hobbies and sport) like misbook.com, and free internet projects like fukduk.tv and ihere.tv. Another way to get comprehensible input at this stage is to have someone record encyclopedias for children for you, that's at least something I find very helpful. Encyclopedias for kids explain scientific and cultural concepts using relatively simple language and lots of pictures; since we, as adults, are mostly familiar with the concepts, it's easy to follow along and learn more advanced words. Once past this stage, any native material will be comprehensible input. Edited by Bakunin on 27 December 2010 at 9:32am 1 person has voted this message useful |
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