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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Maux Diglot Newbie Netherlands Joined 4617 days ago 37 posts - 51 votes  Speaks: Dutch*, English Studies: Mandarin | Message 1 of 26 29 March 2012 at 11:34am | IP Logged |
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I've been studying Mandarin for about half a year now, but have so far failed to go about it in a systematic
fashion. Thus, I have come up with a study plan, providing me with the daily goals I need in order to maintain discipline in my studies. 1) Textbook materials. I'm currently working my way through the New Practical Chinese Reader (NPCR), having almost finished the first book. From here on, I will keep studying the texts every morning, copying them by hand in doing so, up until the point where I have encountered 12 new words. I will look these up in my dictionaries, taking note of any relevant grammatical information (counters, prepositions that go with certain verbs, things like that). In the evening, I set aside time to learn these words using Iversen's wordlist method. For future review, I will write them down both on (physical) flashcards, as well as in a notebook (easier to take with me if I have to travel for some time). 2) Audio. Because my writing skills (simplified) relatively speaking far surpass my speaking skills, I'll do one Pimsleur lesson a day in the evenings. When my time is limited, prevalence is given to the study of new words. When I finish Pimsleur, I'll want to get started on the FSI course. 3) Review. I've put the NPCR texts that I studied on an MP3 player (removing all the English), allowing me to listen when I can't work on anything else. Say, when I'm preparing meals, or when I'm outside walking. Usually, I mumble along a bit. A kind of whispered shadowing, if you will. In addition, I usually review the Pimsleur lesson from the previous day this way. New words are recorded on physical flashcards that I keep with me for review whenever I have a little time during the day. In addition, I'll want to do things like extensive reading or listening, but I haven't organized these tasks into separate time slots. Finally, there will be some days where I will have to compromise somewhat. Particularly on Friday evenings, when I'm meeting a native speaker for language exchange. As for long term goals... This year I intend to participate in the HSK level 2 test, level 3 still having seemed a bit out of reach. For next year, I will, at the very least, want to be able to do level 4, but preferably 5. That's it. Let's see where it gets me. I don't really know yet to what extent I can add any sensible journal entries about my studies besides (hopefully) "Still keeping to the plan", but I'll let that sort itself out. EDIT: In preparation, I have already skimmed through a grammar guide for Mandarin in order to get a broad overview, taking note of the type of information that I would have to pay attention to when learning new words and expressions. I'd also like to study from bilingual texts at some point, but I have nonetheless settled on working through the more standard textbook format of NPCR first, though skipping the exercises and focusing only on the texts and grammar sections. Finally, I will be incorporating Iversen's hyperliteral translations in my intensive reading sessions, while the limitation to doing only 12 new words a day at first is due to the fact that I'm learning to write the new characters at the same time. Edited by Maux on 29 March 2012 at 12:05pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Maux Diglot Newbie Netherlands Joined 4617 days ago 37 posts - 51 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English Studies: Mandarin | Message 2 of 26 01 April 2012 at 7:58am | IP Logged |
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I allowed myself to be tempted into subscribing for the HSK level 3. While I know that passing for such tests is no
guarantee that you have a solid knowledge of the language, I do find it fun to use them as mid-term goals. Besides that, it will probably make for a nice day out, allowing me to talk to some other people with shared interests. When I began studying Mandarin, I also signed up for a class (3 hours once a week). Not so much for the purpose of really learning from it, but, again, as an excuse to go out and meet people. I'm naturally inclined to isolate myself and live like a hermit, so I sometimes need to force myself to go out into the real world. That said, part of the bargain is that I do occasionally get assigned homework. This time, I had to memorize the names for about 8 pieces of clothing. No big deal, but when I looked them up in the dictionary, I noticed something funny. In English, we wear our hats and watches, just like we wear our suits and shoes. But in Chinese, there's two words: 戴 (dai4) and 穿 (chuan1) 戴手表 (dai4shou3biao3) - to wear a watch 戴帽子 (dai4mao4zi5) - to wear a hat 穿西装 (chuan1xi1zhuang1) - to wear a suit 穿皮鞋 (chuan1pi2xie2) - to wear shoes (maybe 穿一双皮鞋 (chuan1yi1shuang1pi2xie2), I wear a pair of shoes, sounds more natural here?) So far, I've gotten the impression that 戴 is mostly used for accessories, and 穿 for actual pieces of clothing. For example, you also use 戴 with spectacles （(幅)眼镜, yan3jing4) and with a scarf (条)围巾. But then again, also with gloves (幅)手套, and I'm not sure if the latter could really be considered an accessory. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| vermillon Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4670 days ago 602 posts - 1042 votes Speaks: French*, EnglishC2, Mandarin Studies: Japanese, German | Message 3 of 26 01 April 2012 at 9:24am | IP Logged |
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For 戴, zdic gives 加在头、面、颈、手等处, i.e. "to add [wear?] on the head, face, neck, hands". The rest is 穿, for which the same dictionary gives 着衣服鞋袜, i.e. to wear "clothes, shoes, socks".
Not sure if that helps. 穿 originally means to pierce, to pass through, which is what you do with all the clothes. For the hat, glasses, scarf, you simply put them on you. Gloves seem to be like socks to me, though (but indeed, use 戴). It will all seem natural to you very soon, just as much as why you "eat meat" but "drink water" ("and what about soup??"). 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Maux Diglot Newbie Netherlands Joined 4617 days ago 37 posts - 51 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English Studies: Mandarin | Message 4 of 26 04 April 2012 at 9:15pm | IP Logged |
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Many thanks: that clarifies things. And thanks also for the encouragement. I can only hope that one day all this
will indeed seem natural. Since shortly after the first post I complicated matters by signing up for level 3 of the HSK (despite so far having only studied the first book of NPCR), certain details in my original plan already had to be changed. While I intend to stick to the general method, NPCR has been put on hold, and instead I'm now studying from the HSK wordlist. Interestingly, I find that I have no trouble learning new characters: I just go through their strokes in front of the mind's eye, and that usually does the trick to ensure retention. Also, when doing word lists, I never write down any of the Pinyin. I just keep them in mind, which seems to make them stick better. Due to having only 2 1/2 months left until the exam, I'm studying new words at a faster rate than originally intended, going through 24 a day. That way, I should finish the third HSK list (600 words total) before the end of the month. After that, I'll study the grammar points and start going through the mock tests. In the meantime, I shall want to work hard on my listening comprehension, as well as engage in extensive reading. The latter not so much with the intention of gaining full understanding of the texts, but rather to reinforce the grammar and known words. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| vermillon Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4670 days ago 602 posts - 1042 votes Speaks: French*, EnglishC2, Mandarin Studies: Japanese, German | Message 5 of 26 04 April 2012 at 10:05pm | IP Logged |
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Wow, that's a nice challenge you've set for yourself. HSK 3 should be doable, and I guess the main thing here is vocabulary. If you learn it fast enough (24 a day seems feasible as you said), there should be no problem. Chinese has a grammar of course, but it's quite light for the 3rd level and that shouldn't have a huge impact on your scor.
I'd even say the listening is not that difficult if you know the vocabulary. Of course, without vocabulary, no matter how well you listen, you won't get anywhere. Also, the HSK doesn't play any tone trick... the worst it can do is have one question with 4 characters as answers, all with a different tone, and the word is exaggeratedly pronounced... but I suppose your goal is not only to pass the HSK, so of course you should learn the correct pronunciation. Good luck. Two months and a half is quite long when you need to be intense, and hopefully you'll finish preparing much earlier than that. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Maux Diglot Newbie Netherlands Joined 4617 days ago 37 posts - 51 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English Studies: Mandarin | Message 6 of 26 15 April 2012 at 9:13pm | IP Logged |
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Many thanks for the support. So far, I don't seem to have a lot of trouble remembering the tones, although I do
of course mess up every now and then. I've realized that I need to become more adept at micromanaging my time. Having adopted some of the advice on time management, I've 'limited' my word list sessions to half an hour, allowing me to maintain a higher level of concentration. As a consequence, I now also enjoy the process of studying a lot more. What I need to do is to similarly define other tasks with appropriate time restrictions (and of varying degrees of intensity), and to become better at switching between them. In addition, I have to find things to do for making better use of dead time. Perhaps flashcards, but they also bore me a little. I've realized something else. At highschool, I had the opportunity to study German, French, Latin and ancient Greek, and I now very much regret not having made adequate use of it. However, I also remember that languages didn't interest me at all back then. What changed? 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Maux Diglot Newbie Netherlands Joined 4617 days ago 37 posts - 51 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English Studies: Mandarin | Message 7 of 26 20 April 2012 at 7:33am | IP Logged |
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I've finally covered all of the words in the HSK3 list. Luckily, I already knew quite a few from NPCR, so only had to
study 18 words a day on average. Of course, I'm not fooling myself here into claiming that I now "know" them: I know how to write them (which was the main purpose of this exercise), and I have a rudimentary knowledge on what they might mean. Next step is to study them in context, going through several test exams. So far, I've been learning the Hanzi in the context of words, and my recall is pretty good. But it feels like only a fragmentary knowledge. I need to better organize them somehow in my mind, through something like an ABC, but then for Chinese characters. This led me to the 1000 character classic (千字文): a poem in classic Chinese of a thousand characters long, with each character in it occurring only once. While a 1000 characters is not enough for literacy by a long shot, it's a good start towards systematizing what I know. Besides, it will provide a good template for learning the traditional forms at a later stage. I have little trouble memorizing long lists, and if the Chinese of a few centuries back could do it, then so can I. On a more general note: to what extent are rhymes or poems still used for teaching the writing of characters? Their advantage is that they are easily memorized vocally, and hence provide a good organizational structure for plugging in the characters that you need to learn. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| viedums Hexaglot Senior Member Thailand Joined 4658 days ago 327 posts - 528 votes Speaks: Latvian, English*, German, Mandarin, Thai, French Studies: Vietnamese | Message 8 of 26 20 April 2012 at 8:13am | IP Logged |
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Have you taken a close look at the Qianziwen? It’s actually in Classical Chinese, which is a completely different language. Also, many of the characters it contains are unusual/obscure even in the classical language, because it was written at a time when obscurity was in vogue. These days the Qianziwen is best known as a text used for calligraphy practice – there are many examples of it done by famous calligraphers that people use as models.
The standard text used by children learning the (classical) language in the period before 1911 was something called the Sanzijing (三字經). Neither it nor the Qianziwen will help you learn Mandarin, unfortunately. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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