Problems with English pronunciation (Specific Languages) Language Learning Forum

Problems with English pronunciation
Tags: Comprehension/understanding \| Difficulty \| Pronunciation \| English
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IronFist
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United States
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Speaks: English*
Studies: Japanese, Korean

Message 9 of 23

12 May 2012 at 5:47pm | IP Logged

Pisces wrote:

IronFist wrote:

Quote:

We almost never say "I go to the store now.", but always "I'm going to the store now."

Agree. "I go to the store now" sounds very unnatural. I would only say that if I was talking to a little kid (or impersonating pidgin English... hypothetically speaking, of course).

Yes, but you say "I go to the store every Saturday." Or "I cut down trees for a living." So I don't think it has anything to do with pronunciation.

Personally I don't really understand the original question, since I think there's usually a difference between the present and the past, except in the 'we discussed trees' example. But English pronunciation is complicated. For example, in "cut trees" it sounds to me as though the 't' in 'cut' is often replaced by a glottal stop of some kind (in American English).

You could say "I go to the store ever Saturday."

I just meant "I go to the store." As a complete sentence sounds unnatural unless it was like part of a list or diary entry or something which doesn't follow normal grammar rules.
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IronFist
Senior Member
United States
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Speaks: English*
Studies: Japanese, Korean

Message 10 of 23

12 May 2012 at 5:48pm | IP Logged

Pisces wrote:

jrsanbernabe wrote:

(for example:
She worked a lot sounds like She work ta lot) or even h, which sometimes tends to
disappear (for example I asked him sound like I ask tim), but if not,it's difficult for
me to distinguish the sound /ed/.

For example, in 'he asked me to go' I think there's always a /t/ before 'me' no matter how fast it's pronounced. What dialect of English are you primarily referring to?

"He assed me to go."
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Pisces
Bilingual Pentaglot
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Finland
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Message 11 of 23

12 May 2012 at 7:03pm | IP Logged

fiziwig wrote:

Pisces wrote:

IronFist wrote:

Quote:

We almost never say "I go to the store now.", but always "I'm going to the store now."

Agree. "I go to the store now" sounds very unnatural. I would only say that if I was talking to a little kid (or impersonating pidgin English... hypothetically speaking, of course).

Yes, but you say "I go to the store every Saturday." Or "I cut down trees for a living." So I don't think it has anything to do with pronunciation.

Neither of those uses past tense. Nor are they present tense. They describe habitual or continuous action in a construction where the past tense NEVER appears, and so there is no possibility of confusion. In both cases the past tense version is so different that no pronunciation confusion can exist: "I went to the store every Saturday" or "I used to go to the store every Saturday", and "I used to cut trees for a living."

In cases where continuous or habitual action needs a past tense, such as "I danced timidly when I was young." the clause "when I was young" fixes the ambiguity. In other words, if you said "I dance timidly when I was young." your listener would HEAR "I danced timidly when I was young." And, obviously, when the next word begins with a contrasting sound, no ambiguity is present: "I danced at the party." which allows the -ed to be clearly pronounced and heard.

Where you will hear the past tense clearly is in formal speech given by people trained in locution such as actors and public speakers. Even so, to my ears it sounds a bit odd and artificial to hear an actor say "I danced _ timidly" with a notable gap between the ending -ed and the initial t-.

"I go to the store every Saturday" is in the present tense. So is the other sentence. There are plenty of situations in which one uses this simple present tense in English, so let's not confuse the original poster, who is learning English.

Anyway, the question was about whether the -ed past tense in English sounds different from the present tense when the next word begins with a consonant. I'm not an expert in English phonology, but in my opinion it nearly always sounds different, except in the cases like "discussed trees" spoken quickly.
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jrsanbernabe
Newbie
Spain
Joined 4599 days ago
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Speaks: Spanish*
Studies: English

Message 12 of 23

12 May 2012 at 9:06pm | IP Logged

First, thanks for your contributions. The main problem I see is that there are cases in
which the sound -ed is hard to hear especially for a non-native, for example:
I played the violin
I rained too much,
They Opened the box (not the case "I Opened a box", where you can hear the sound -ed
perfectly)

there are other cases where it is easy to hear, such as:

I liked it = I laiktit
We Talked and Talked. We toktand tokt =. / We tok tokt tand.
They Watched a movie. They wachta movie =. / They wach movie ta.
How long have you Worked at This Company? = How long have you worktat / work tat This
Company?

Finally, there are other cases where it is perhaps possible to pronounce it but it is
difficult to do without compromising my fluency to say the phrase (sounds very forced).
For example:

she asked me to go.

the sound -skt is very difficult to pronounce (in Spanish we have no sound like this
and both k and t are very strong sounds).I
have read in some forums that some natives tend to
omit the sound -k sounding something like:

she asst me to go (in this case it would be easy to pronounce it)

Edited by jrsanbernabe on 12 May 2012 at 9:24pm
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jrsanbernabe
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Spain
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Studies: English

Message 13 of 23

12 May 2012 at 9:39pm | IP Logged

Pisces wrote:

jrsanbernabe wrote:

For example, in 'he asked me to go' I think there's always a /t/ before 'me' no matter
how fast it's pronounced. What dialect of English are you primarily referring to?

I do not say that the sound-t not be heard, but it's not easy to pronounce. Logically
if I speak slowly is more or less easy to pronounce, but if I want to speak fluently is
much more difficult.

for example: Can the natives distinguish between these two sentences?

I open the box
I Opened the box

I mean regardless of the context, just listening to it

Edited by jrsanbernabe on 12 May 2012 at 9:43pm
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Pisces
Bilingual Pentaglot
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Finland
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Message 14 of 23

13 May 2012 at 2:55pm | IP Logged

jrsanbernabe wrote:

for example: Can the natives distinguish between these two sentences?

I open the box
I Opened the box

I mean regardless of the context, just listening to it

Yes, there is a difference.

And yes, there is a tendency to drop the /k/ in "She asked me."

Edited by Pisces on 13 May 2012 at 2:56pm
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jrsanbernabe
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Message 15 of 23

13 May 2012 at 4:47pm | IP Logged

Pisces wrote:

jrsanbernabe wrote:

for example: Can the natives distinguish between these two sentences?

I open the box
I Opened the box

I mean regardless of the context, just listening to it

Yes, there is a difference.

And yes, there is a tendency to drop the /k/ in "She asked me."

the difference exists, but for a non-native is difficult to distinguish, and in fast
speech is even more difficult.

Edited by jrsanbernabe on 13 May 2012 at 4:48pm
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fiziwig
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United States
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Speaks: English*
Studies: Spanish

Message 16 of 23

13 May 2012 at 7:38pm | IP Logged

Pisces wrote:

jrsanbernabe wrote:

for example: Can the natives distinguish between these two sentences?

I open the box
I Opened the box

I mean regardless of the context, just listening to it

Yes, there is a difference.

And yes, there is a tendency to drop the /k/ in "She asked me."

Frankly, I hear no difference at all between the two when I pronounce them. And I see no difference in the wave forms in the Audacity sound editor. There certainly are trained public speakers who have been taught how to pronounce them differently, (I openeduh the box) but psychologists have proven time and again that what our ears hear and what our brain thinks it hears can be completely different.

If we expect a difference as a result of context then we will think we hear a difference. But do for yourself the experiment that psychologists have already done. Use the Windows Sound Recorder (under Accessories in the program menu) and have someone who doesn't know what the experiment is about record two sentences: "I run down downstairs and open the box." and "I ran downstairs and open the box." Be sure they say "OPEN" in the present tense in both sentences. Now play back the two sentences for as many volunteers and you can recruit and ask them to write down what they hear.

Unless you cheat by giving "open" some kind of fake, unnatural emphasis, they will "hear" "I run downstairs and open the box." and "I ran downstairs and opened the box."

Remove the context and say just "I open the box." and they are more likely to hear "I opened the box." The reason is that "I open the box" will virtually NEVER occur as a stand alone sentence. Yes, it will occur as a clause, as in "Will you please open the box." But I can't imagine a native speaker EVER saying "I open the box." Period. Full stop. End of sentence.

This experiment does NOT prove that nobody pronounces them differently, but it does prove that they don't have to be pronounced differently in order to be heard differently. They can be pronounced the same and still heard differently.

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