How to Speak Like a Native (General discussion) Language Learning Forum

How to Speak Like a Native
Tags: Non-native Speakers \| Accent
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montmorency
Diglot
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United Kingdom
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Message 41 of 63

24 July 2012 at 7:43pm | IP Logged

Hertz wrote:

The comparison between a language student learning to sound like a
native, and an actor imitating an accent, is apposite. I am a hobbyist actor -- an
unpaid amateur, alas! -- but I have noticed that not all actors have equal facility
with accents. I have worked with actors whose accents are simply atrocious, and others
who had great natural skill. Some actors take instruction well, if given a good
example, and others seem unable to hear the difference.

I'm convinced there is a difference in brain pathways, giving some people this ability.
I imagine it as a channel for "hearing + speaking," or an enhanced ability to hear
what's coming out of your mouth as you say it and to make adjustments. It feels to me
as if I have a "mental sound map" for the target accent (or language) and I'm actively
substituting sounds that are out of its scope.

I also use the trick of learning the accent, then applying it to my target language.
It seems to produce decent results. I wonder if there's any way to discover what the
common factor is among people who are good at this trick, or if there are exercises one
can do to improve it. Perhaps a poll could be devised?

My guess is that it has something to do with ones "musical ear", i.e. the ability to
hear different sound frequencies (pitch), and also things like timbre.

Edited by montmorency on 24 July 2012 at 7:44pm
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Hertz
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Message 42 of 63

25 July 2012 at 6:42pm | IP Logged

The prevalence of "perfect pitch," as such musical ability is commonly called, is more prevalent among people who natively speak a tonal language such as Chinese or Vietnamese (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/05/090519172202.h tm). If the ability to imitate an accent is related to musical proficiency, it is reasonable to assume that a greater-than-average percentage of tonal-language speakers would be able to lose their accents. Unfortunately, I know of no objective way to test this theory.
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LeadZeppelin
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Message 43 of 63

25 July 2012 at 8:21pm | IP Logged

I just wonder how much this depends on which TL you're working on. To me, English seems
extremely difficult to get a native accent. I attribute this to the fact that English
doesn't have set pronunciation rules. Words like "wind," "lead," and "house" are all
pronounced two different ways, depending on the context. Words like desert and dessert
differ only by the stressed syllable. To master English pronunciation, you typically
have to know how to pronounce every word. This just isn't the case for some languages.
For example, in Spanish or French, where there are set pronunciation rules with few
exceptions. In these languages, if you master the sound palette and pronunciation
rules, even when you encounter new words you should be able to produce the right
sounds.

Maybe I'm wrong, that's just how it seems to me. I noticed on the first page especially
that many people were talking about people not sounding like native English speakers.
Later on there were several people here talking about success stories in romance TL.
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Марк
Senior Member
Russian Federation
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Speaks: Russian*

Message 44 of 63

25 July 2012 at 8:39pm | IP Logged

LeadZeppelin wrote:

I just wonder how much this depends on which TL you're working
on. To me, English seems
extremely difficult to get a native accent. I attribute this to the fact that English
doesn't have set pronunciation rules. Words like "wind," "lead," and "house" are all
pronounced two different ways, depending on the context. Words like desert and dessert
differ only by the stressed syllable. To master English pronunciation, you typically
have to know how to pronounce every word. This just isn't the case for some languages.
For example, in Spanish or French, where there are set pronunciation rules with few
exceptions. In these languages, if you master the sound palette and pronunciation
rules, even when you encounter new words you should be able to produce the right
sounds.

Maybe I'm wrong, that's just how it seems to me. I noticed on the first page especially
that many people were talking about people not sounding like native English speakers.
Later on there were several people here talking about success stories in romance TL.

There is such a problem, but it is not the main one. We learnt words together with the
transcription at school. Here we are talking about phonetics itself, I think.
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Mae
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Message 45 of 63

25 July 2012 at 10:31pm | IP Logged

Марк wrote:

Mae wrote:

Learning languages is not a question of talent, sounding like a native is.

To sound like a native you have to work hard on your pronunciation, to work with a teacher or to take
special classes. Everyone is able to do that.

Could be, but without some sort of talent, there is no chance. Either you can reproduce phonetics well, or
not. I had many lessons - individual, in class, full immersion, etc. Many students couldn't even pronounce
"the" correctly, even if they tried again and again. That's why (in class) I never spoke sounding like the
teacher, that just created envy/jealousy/misunderstandings every time.
That's why I believe that you need talent for that. I had many lessons, but I never took special classes,
nor practised with a teacher to get a perfect pronunciation. I just listen and try to imitate. It's not
easy, and it takes time. But there are definitely people who can't sound native, no matter how much they
work on their pronunciation. When I took my IELTS exam in Italy, there were people from the British Council
to supervise us. Some of them explained the rules (no mobile, no going to the toilet during exam, etc.)
with such a thick Italian accent, that I couldn't believe they were English teachers at the British
Council!
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Марк
Senior Member
Russian Federation
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Speaks: Russian*

Message 46 of 63

25 July 2012 at 10:48pm | IP Logged

We have the same speech organs, don't we? So we can put the tongue in the correct
position as well as lips and pronounce what we need.
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emk
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Message 47 of 63

26 July 2012 at 12:19am | IP Logged

Марк wrote:

We have the same speech organs, don't we? So we can put the tongue in the
correct position as well as lips and pronounce what we need.

Some phonemes are just hard and weird. It's a little alarming to discover that a
language has 5 H-like sounds (one of them voiced) and a phonemic glottal stop. Or that
syllables can end in "-tr", with the T unaspirated and R unvoiced.

And even if you can pronounce all of them in isolation, it's another thing to pronounce
them in fluent speech, especially when you're tired. I can pronounce the French guttural R quite easily, but if I speak quickly, I'm very likely to tap it when it
appears next to certain other letters.

Some people can learn some phonemes quite easily. But sometimes, for other people and
other phonemes, it seems more like learning a music instrument—a whole lot of serious,
dedicated practice.
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Hampie
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Message 48 of 63

26 July 2012 at 1:45am | IP Logged

emk wrote:

Марк wrote:

We have the same speech organs, don't we? So we can put the tongue in the
correct position as well as lips and pronounce what we need.

What language is that, and which are those H'es?

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