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Sentences instead of Words | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
| Darobat Diglot Senior Member Joined 7180 days ago 754 posts - 770 votes  Speaks: English*, Russian Studies: Latin | Message 1 of 21 14 April 2007 at 8:02pm | IP Logged | ||
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Hey all
I was reading on the alljapaneseallthetime.com site about the "10,000 sentence method" and it mentions putting sentences on flash cards instead of just single words. It makes sense that having context with the word would help you remember it (with a better understanding of what it actually means), along with some words it's commonly used with, but there are some things that don't really make sense. I find sentences substantially easier to differentiate between than single words, and so I can easily see myself "learning" my target word(s) on the card, but really only knowing what they mean in that sentence. I'm worried I'd not know the word outside of the flash card or be able to actively recall the word I'm trying to learn. Does anyone have any experience with words on flashcards as sentences? Any other context-based methods to learn vocabulary? Thanks EDIT: Typos Edited by Darobat on 14 April 2007 at 9:37pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| tujiko Senior Member United States Joined 6525 days ago 140 posts - 144 votes Speaks: English* | Message 2 of 21 14 April 2007 at 9:23pm | IP Logged | ||
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Sentences are far better than individual words because we speak in sentences :^) Most words have meanings that shift at the whim of their placements in conversation (ie, context). Learning sentences provides you with concrete (and correct) examples of how words fit together in particular situations. When you use the sentence method, you won't get pinholed into only recognizing the word in the context of that sentence for the same reason this didn't happen to you when learning English - as you learn more sentences, you inevitably run into similar and different patterns, and unconsciously understand how certain words work in certain situations, but not in others. Don't approach the sentence method as using the sentence to help you learn the word - use the sentence method to learn the entire sentence, so you'll have a complete toolkit of grammar, verb, adjective, noun, SOV/SVO order, etc, all wrapped up neatly and added to your language knowledge. However, even if you're planning on using it simply to learn vocabulary, a sentence will still help, because it'll give you (again) a solid contextual example of the word in action.
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| Ari Heptaglot Senior Member Norway Joined 6574 days ago 2314 posts - 5695 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Mandarin, Cantonese Studies: Czech, Latin, German | Message 3 of 21 15 April 2007 at 2:58am | IP Logged | ||
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I share your fears about only learning the words in context. There's the risk of looking at a sentence and remembering "ah, this one means 'I like long strolls at the beach'". And you think you know the word for 'beach'. But when the word pops up somewhere else, you'll have no idea what it means.
I'm not a great fan of the "learning in context" method. Languages work in similar ways, and if you know an approximation of what the word means in your own language, you'll understand it when you hear/read it. The context will come as you hear and read the word many times. You'll soon figure out what kind of constructions it figures in. The brain is pretty good at picking these things up. But it might have to do with learning styles, though. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| TDC Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 6913 days ago 261 posts - 291 votes Speaks: English*, Mandarin, French Studies: Esperanto, Ukrainian, German, Italian, Spanish, Russian, Persian | Message 4 of 21 15 April 2007 at 3:17am | IP Logged | ||
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I think the key is timed repetitions. Just set a flashcard program to remind you of the sentence after certain intervals and the words/structures/grammar concepts of the sentences will gradually fall into your mind without you having to do too much.
I do think if you see the sentence "I like to walk at the beach" then when you see those words later, you know the order of the words, and you remember like: well i like must be i like at the must be at the beach must be beach. hmm I didn't remember beach outright, but let me think to myself for a minute beach=beach beach=beach beach=beach...okay. next card. And so, by seeing the examples numerous times when you come across the sentence. I walked at the beach. Then you'll remember "at the" "beach" but with "walk" you'll think hmm, that's a little different "ed" is past tense...so it must mean... Just find good sentences. Personally I'm using Assimil, because they repeat a lot of material and build gradually. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| furrykef Senior Member United States furrykef.com/ Joined 6464 days ago 681 posts - 862 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Japanese, Latin, Italian | Message 5 of 21 16 April 2007 at 9:21am | IP Logged | ||
One possible defense against this is to have multiple sentences that use the word. You can't do this for every word or you'll end up with an impossible number of sentences, but if a word is giving you trouble, you can probably find a way to work it into another sentence. - Kef 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| The Log Groupie United Kingdom Joined 6572 days ago 57 posts - 58 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German | Message 6 of 21 16 April 2007 at 3:49pm | IP Logged | ||
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By the time you get to learning words that you don't see very often, you can get a target language to target language dictionary anyway, so the problem of not seeing the word in enough contexts anyway shouldn't be a problem.
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| Andy E Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 7095 days ago 1651 posts - 1939 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, French | Message 7 of 21 17 April 2007 at 5:10am | IP Logged | ||
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I'll chuck my two cents here for what it's worth. I've been following a sentence-based method for the last few months in Spanish. However, I have the question in my native language and answer in the target one.
I am using it as a way of doing an Assimil-style Active Wave with spaced repetition to ensure retention. I don't put every single phrase I come across into the program because it has to involve some challenge or provide some interest. To me this method gives both "learning in context" (on the answer side of the card) and an "approximation" of the meaning in my own language (on the question side of the card). I don't do passive-style flashcards (target to native or target only) and never have. If you learn these things actively, you'll have them passively whereas the reverse isn't necessarily true without an increased amount of exposure and repetition. Andy. Edited by Andy E on 23 April 2007 at 3:41am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| awake Senior Member United States Joined 6628 days ago 406 posts - 438 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Esperanto, Spanish | Message 8 of 21 19 April 2007 at 4:41pm | IP Logged | ||
Sorry if I'm being dense, but I'm a bit confused by your post. You say you do native (questions) to target (answers) but then later you say you "don't do passive-style flashcards (native to target or native only)" Could you please clarify your approach a little?
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