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Teango
Triglot
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Speaks: English*, German, Russian
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| Message 25 of 33 28 November 2010 at 1:42am | IP Logged |
divexo wrote:
Sorry if i missed it, but how do you achieve this?
Specifically, which languages did you do of this 3 and what methods to get to this high reading level? |
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Apologies for forgetting to add a link to the method (I've put one in now for anyone interested in giving it a try sometime).
I've learned to read quite comfortably in German, Spanish and Swedish so far this year, and have hopes of rounding off 2010 with a half-decent reading level in Russian too, if all goes to plan.
The only method I've used for this stage is study-and-click. It's certainly evolved from its humble beginnings in German and Spanish, through lots of experimentation and fine-tuning, to a point where I'm really happy now with how it stands, which is probably best reflected in my recent Swedish log "Dreams of Valhalla".
Edited by Teango on 28 November 2010 at 1:46am
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| slucido
Bilingual Diglot
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| Message 26 of 33 28 November 2010 at 7:44am | IP Logged |
Teango wrote:
magister wrote:
| What do you mean by "study and click"? |
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After several years of playing with all sorts of methods and approaches, I've developed something that really works well for me. I call my method "study-and-click" because that's essentially what I do for the large part of it.
Here are my steps for a 1 hour session of study-and-click (using a Swedish/English parallel text as an example):
1. I listen to Swedish and read Swedish, a line or a few words at a time, and then pause the audio. Whilst the audio is paused, I quickly look over at the aligned English text and work out the corresponding meaning of what I've just listened to and read. Then I return to the Swedish side and unpress pause to listen to the next bit of audio and follow along in the text. I continue to study like this until I reach the end of the current audio file. This seems to work best with shorter files around 4-5 minutes in length. When I get more advanced, I only hit pause when I reach a word or phrase I don't understand (this becomes more and more motivating when I don't need to press pause for several sentences or even whole paragraphs).
2. I next listen to the whole audio file again whilst reading in Swedish, but keep my fingers off the pause button this time round. Instead, I click any new words that I can quickly read and fully understand using a simple clicker counter. When I say new words, I mean words that I haven't clicked before in previous sessions and that I never knew before but clearly do now. The purpose of clicking is to actively retrieve, recognise and review new words shortly after studying, so that they have a better chance of sticking in my head. It's also very motivating to prove to myself that I know so many more words after a short session than before.
3. I follow this up by listening to the audio file again (now for a third time), but without referring to the texts at all. I click any new words that I can clearly hear and understand in real-time. This tends to result in less clicks counted than in step 2, but turns out to be excellent listening practice for recognising new words in continuous speech.
4. I round off the rest of the session with extensive listening and reading (i.e. I listen and read in Swedish) or core listening-reading (i.e. I listen to Swedish and read in English). At first, I find it useful to read in English along with the audio, simply to get a good grounding in the story and context. As the material overlaps over successive sessions, I get lots of excellent priming and tend to graduate to reading in Swedish once I know the story better. However the main thing to do here is just relax and enjoy listening in Swedish, switching to whichever side you feel like reading along with the audio.
I start doing this step from wherever I left off in step 3 and continue onwards without pausing until I've reached 50 minutes into my session. If I've already passed the 50-minute barrier, I simply leave this step out and take a break instead.
This is how I log my progress:
I use a lined notebook and draw 4 columns on each page with a ruler, and reserve two lines for each session.
In column 1 (Study), I make a note of the section I'm currently studying (i.e. audio file and pages), and write down the cumulative hours studied so far in the line underneath.
In column 2 (Click-R), I put the total number of new words I clicked whilst listening and reading during step 2, and add the cumulative total of words clicked so far below.
In column 3 (Click-L), I note down the number of new words clicked whilst simply listening during step 3, and again add the cumulative total underneath.
In column 4 (Notes), I make i) a short note of something interesting relating to pronunciation, grammar, vocabulary or perhaps even culture, that I queried or discovered for myself whilst studying the passage, and ii) a one-line summary of the section to use as a cue for later conversation and writing practice. Both of these notes help consolidate what I've learned and can be used again as a basis for active sessions at a later stage.
I calculate my grand totals for each day and put these in my notebook at the end and in my online log in the evening. As these totals visibly grow and grow, so does my self-esteem and sense of achievement in the new language.
This is how I test myself:
At the end of each day, I follow my studies up with a very basic reading test (e.g. 100 words from a different chapter each day), using a separate novel for this purpose and an online dictionary. I count the number of words I recognised correctly and record the percentage in both my notebook and online log. Along with a rough idea of how passive vocabulary corresponds to reading levels, this provides me with further clues as to how well I'm progressing in reading comprehension.
A little note on timing:
I try to ensure that each session is no more than 50 minutes, with a 10 minute break at the end to help prevent burn-out and recharge the batteries. This is a good time to just get up out of my chair and grab some fresh air outside or exercise the legs a little. I try to do no more than 2 hours in a row without having a longer considered break (perhaps 30 minutes) inbetween. Sometimes a siesta or little cat nap in the afternoon can work wonders for my slumping energy levels.
I also try to balance intensive study (steps 1-3) with extensive listening and reading (step 4), ideally in a ratio of 2:1 whenever possible. This forms the basis of another idea I had to apply interval training to learning languages to help maximise exposure and efficient gains via review each day.
I suspect that there's an optimum number of hours of study-and-click required to get the best acceleration without the risk of over-training or cutting out altogether. Less than an hour and I'm simply maintaining pace; more than 8 hours in the past and I've ended up subconsciously counterbalancing down the road with several days off. So I think my ideal is about 6 hourly sessions so far, which is what I managed to successfully average for Spanish back in June and am aiming for with Swedish now.
New note: I've also noticed that I tend to go through sections much much faster as my reading level improves. This is really good, as it enables me to process more text in the time given, and this in turn counteracts the fact that there are now less unknown words in general to pick up. When this starts to happen, I aim to round the total time for each session up to the nearest 15 minutes, by padding out any remaining minutes with extensive reading, before fitting in the next session (e.g. 25m session + 25m session + 10m break).
To help keep me motivated:
I reward myself for every completed session by adding another piece of Lego to whatever plastic masterpiece or monstrosity I'm currently building. At the moment, for example, I'm more than halfway through constructing a small classic dragster. It may seem a little childish to some, but it's fun and simple and every brick represents another step towards completing my language learning goals. ;)
Here's a summary of the resources that I use:
- an aligned parallel novel, with a fun and engaging story you can really get into (ideally something relatively easy, like Harry Potter);
- a corresponding high quality unabridged audiobook, with a good clear narrator you enjoy listening to;
- a mechanical clicker counter (like the cheap ones you can buy in a sports store);
- a logbook to record daily progress and make notes (I use colourful Moleskin Volant ruled notebooks);
- a separate novel (ideally online or ebook), at an average to moderately difficult level, to use for basic reading comprehension tests;
- access to the Internet or a good dictionary to check reading comprehension scores. |
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I don't understand the "click" part. What's the function of the mechanical clicker counter? Is it only to keep track of words?
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| Teango
Triglot
Winner TAC 2010 & 2012
Senior Member
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teango.wordpress.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 5547 days ago
2210 posts - 3734 votes
Speaks: English*, German, Russian
Studies: Hawaiian, French, Toki Pona
| Message 27 of 33 28 November 2010 at 8:13am | IP Logged |
I guess it's easy to overlook the importance of "clicking" at first and wonder "hey, what's the point!?"...but much to my own surprise, I've found this part to not only be quite fun, but also one of the most effective means I know of achieving i) quick and prompt post-review and consolidation, and very rewarding in terms of ii) progress tracking (and estimating passive vocabulary levels), and iii) training myself to focus on newly acquired words I can now read and ideally also pick out clearly in the audio. [edit]
You know...I'm also tempted to add here a click in time saves nine...oh no, I said it already, too late! ;)
Edited by Teango on 28 November 2010 at 9:01am
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| slucido
Bilingual Diglot
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| Message 28 of 33 28 November 2010 at 8:35am | IP Logged |
Teango wrote:
I guess it's easy to overlook the importance of "clicking" at first and wonder "hey, what's the point!?"...but much to my own surprise, I've found this part to not only be quite fun, but also one of the most effective means I know of achieving i) quick and prompt post-review and consolidation, and really rewarding in terms of ii) progress tracking, and iii) training myself to focus on newly acquired words I can now read and hear.
You know...I'm also tempted to add here a click in time saves nine...oh no, I said it already, too late! ;) |
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As far as I understand, it seems an application of behaviorist principles.
I say so because it reminds me the clicker training used by Karen Pryor that is used on humans too.
http://www.clickertraining.com/taxonomy/term/111
Learning a New Language with the Clicker:
http://www.clickertraining.com/node/375
TAGteach international: More human application.
http://www.tagteach.com/
Edited by slucido on 28 November 2010 at 8:43am
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| Teango
Triglot
Winner TAC 2010 & 2012
Senior Member
United States
teango.wordpress.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 5547 days ago
2210 posts - 3734 votes
Speaks: English*, German, Russian
Studies: Hawaiian, French, Toki Pona
| Message 29 of 33 28 November 2010 at 8:53am | IP Logged |
I'm not familiar with Pryor's work on animal training and behavioural psychology, but casting a quick glance over to Wikipedia now, I guess there probably is a strong postive reinforcement element to it all.
I mean, I certainly find it very rewarding to recognise and actively acknowledge when I understand a new word, be it in the text or audio, that I never knew before - counting up the progress is quite a buzz (and perhaps the act of clicking develops into its own reward through association after a little while too)!
However, I think there's a substantial difference between using a clicker to reward animals and using a clicker-counter to record progress and help review new words. For as much as I enjoy this part of the method, it hasn't quite got me jumping at flashcards or salivating for success so far. ;)
Edited by Teango on 28 November 2010 at 8:55am
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| slucido
Bilingual Diglot
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| Message 30 of 33 28 November 2010 at 9:22am | IP Logged |
Teango wrote:
However, I think there's a substantial difference between using a clicker to reward animals and using a clicker-counter to record progress and help review new words. For as much as I enjoy this part of the method, it hasn't quite got me jumping at flashcards or salivating for success so far. ;) |
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If you take a look at this link your will see the human applications:
http://www.tagteach.com/
If you look here, you are using the clicker and the TAGulator at the same time:
http://www.tagteach.com/store/
I am very surprised. If you really don't know anything about this, you are a genius.
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| Teango
Triglot
Winner TAC 2010 & 2012
Senior Member
United States
teango.wordpress.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 5547 days ago
2210 posts - 3734 votes
Speaks: English*, German, Russian
Studies: Hawaiian, French, Toki Pona
| Message 31 of 33 28 November 2010 at 10:00am | IP Logged |
This sounds fascinating, and it's the first time I've ever seen anyone else using a clicker to study languages before.
At first I just used my little ol' clicker-counter to tally reading scores, but then I thought...why not use it for counting new words I've learned at the end of a study session as well, and it all grew from there really. I soon found that the actual act of clicking had additional benefits in terms of improving overall recall and motivation.
It's good to know there are other crazy clickers out there too. :)
Unfortunately I don't seem to be able to access the article on learning languages with a clicker - I'd be interested to read it. I guess my version of the Tagulator is a combination of seeing the total number of clicks so far and building something fun with Lego (where I add another brick or wheel to my model masterpiece after each session).
Edited by Teango on 28 November 2010 at 10:02am
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| tommus
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| Message 32 of 33 28 November 2010 at 8:18pm | IP Logged |
Teango wrote:
| This sounds fascinating, and it's the first time I've ever seen anyone else using a clicker to study languages before. |
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I guess we are getting a bit off the original theme of this thread, but if it really helps to learn vocabulary, then it will really help reading.
If clicking or other audio feedback really works as very positive and effective feedback, it would be great. There are probably many ways of doing it, or doing something similar. I think it is already used a bit. For example, even though I don't find Rosetta Stone to be very effective for me because I find it so boring, it does use a similar strategy of the same very distinctive "bleepidy" tone every time you make the correct choice. Some other multiple choice web pages, etc. do something similar. The main difficulty may be to find a method or methods that work for a self-learner. I'm going to try some things with software and see if I can get something that seems to work.
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