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Katz vs The Korean | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
| Nudimmud Groupie United States Joined 5183 days ago 87 posts - 161 votes  Studies: Greek, Korean | Message 9 of 22 19 October 2010 at 9:22am | IP Logged | |||||
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I'm going to have to go with Katz' approach. If your native language is English, and you're an adult, any language you learn is going to take a long time -- many hundreds of hours at least and, perhaps one or two thousand hours. The only way such an investment could be worth it is if you enjoy and are stimulated by the journey. If not what could possibly make such an outlay of time worth it? Are you going to make enough more money in your profession? (Couldn't you have used that time upgrading other skills?) There are many ways to learn about cultures without mastering their language, and for the vast majority of them even the most voracious language learner will have to be satisfied with those methods rather than learning the language.
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| Chill Diglot Groupie Japan Joined 5156 days ago 68 posts - 77 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: French | Message 10 of 22 19 October 2010 at 9:34am | IP Logged | |||||
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I get the feeling that there is a difference between how Khatz learned Japanese himself and the ideas he suggests to people on his site. To truly do all that he suggests requires a big change in how you live your life day to day. I think that on his site and there in Tokyo, he has come into contact with many many people who want to learn the language but say they can`t due to XYZ. And these are largely psychological issues. Khatz, being the person he is, is trying to help them out, and that is what is behind the self help type things that the site has focused on in the past year or so.
My sense is that the two gentlemen in question are actually very similar. It is just that they have taken very different tacts in trying to help others, and that these tacts reflect their cultures (Korean vs. American). 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Nudimmud Groupie United States Joined 5183 days ago 87 posts - 161 votes Studies: Greek, Korean | Message 11 of 22 19 October 2010 at 9:56am | IP Logged | |||||
I'm not sure that's fair. This is what he wrote about himself:
More or less this is exactly the approach he promotes on his site. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| carlonove Senior Member United States Joined 5977 days ago 145 posts - 253 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Italian | Message 12 of 22 19 October 2010 at 3:02pm | IP Logged | |||||
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One other thing about the Korean: he states that he learned English to a university-degree level in two years, and that his method "relies entirely on rote memorization." He's exaggerating, as he also says that he watched televesion for an average of 3 hours a day, but the memorization is still the core active-study component of the method. He never says that textsbooks, teachers, and classes were a a valuable resource, only that he got excellent grades in school because of his method.
He doesn't hate on the school system the way Katz (Khatz?) blatantly does, but also doesn't sing its praises. Edited by carlonove on 19 October 2010 at 3:03pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| jazzboy.bebop Senior Member Norway norwegianthroughnove Joined 5409 days ago 439 posts - 800 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Norwegian | Message 13 of 22 19 October 2010 at 9:40pm | IP Logged | |||||
I agree with this but not sure about the culture aspect of Korean vs American, Khatzumoto is actually Kenyan though he went to study in the US if memory serves me right. Both are about putting a lot of effort into it but Khatz tries to go a bit more into the psychology of trying to do things in a way that can create the most fun and not to worry about not having incredible focus on anything in particular, as long as you turn up, do a lot of stuff, it'll pay off in the end. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Chill Diglot Groupie Japan Joined 5156 days ago 68 posts - 77 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: French | Message 14 of 22 20 October 2010 at 1:35am | IP Logged | |||||
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I find it useful to separate Khatzmoto`s method from his (recent)ideas. For the past year or so, his philosophical emphasis has been on how one can start and continue learning language as opposed to a specific method. I think he came up with a brilliant method, used it himself to great success, and then decided to share it with others. Then what happened was a deluge of "Yeah Khatz, but ..." His approach turned to how to help these people which resulted in his self help/success oriented articles.
His method is very intense, as is the Korean`s. I am convinced that they both share very similar mindsets. What we are reading is how they are trying to help others become like themselves. Khatz was born in Kenya, lived in the UK for a bit, I believe, but his approach is very 21st century American. My understanding is that he spent his formative years in the US. The Korean is very Korean in regards to the basic idea that "you are in debt to your elders/parents. Pay it back and if it is tough, suck it up." The problem with both specific approaches here, is that we have two experts who are attempting to reverse engineer/model themselves. This is very difficult and usually results in a incomplete model. 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| leosmith Senior Member United States Joined 6541 days ago 2365 posts - 3804 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Tagalog | Message 15 of 22 20 October 2010 at 1:51am | IP Logged | |||||
Life has got to be tough for those who depend on having fun. Rewards for becoming proficient in a language are more than sufficient for me to work hard. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Nudimmud Groupie United States Joined 5183 days ago 87 posts - 161 votes Studies: Greek, Korean | Message 16 of 22 20 October 2010 at 2:17am | IP Logged | |||||
Not at all. Look at great scientists, mathematicians, business entrepreneurs, linguists even, people who are really, really good at what they do. They will all tell you (or at least the ones I've read about and met) that they love what they do, that it's fun, that it's stimulating. That doesn't mean there's no work or that one is passive, or even that there is never anything that is not fun, rather it means that there is general intersection between what you really like doing and what it is that you're doing. If you are spending 1000+ hours in misery learning a language, and expect somehow that once you master it you'll some how have that all paid off, I personally think you're making a big mistake, both in terms of waisted time and quality of life. EDIT: I should hasten to add that the above goes for the recreational language learner. If you live in a country country or have a passion to live and work in a certain country then you really need to learn the language, even if you hate language learning. Likewise, if you need a certain foreign language to accomplish study goals, again you should learn the language. But even there finding ways to make learning enjoyable is often crucial to learning effectively. Edited by Nudimmud on 20 October 2010 at 2:24am 1 person has voted this message useful |
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