12 messages over 2 pages: 1 2
Volte
Tetraglot
Senior Member
Switzerland
Joined 6430 days ago
4474 posts - 6726 votes 
Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian
Studies: French, Finnish, Mandarin, Japanese
| Message 9 of 12 21 October 2010 at 7:30pm | IP Logged |
jazzboy.bebop wrote:
Ari wrote:
I never understood the very common "since only studying vocab won't get you
fluent, you shouldn't study vocab out of context" attitude. What's the logic there?
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There is certainly nothing wrong with learning vocabulary out of context, it's just that
when you compare this kind of subliminal learning to L-R which is a subliminal method of
sorts, L-R has the added bonus of learning through context and will give more of an
understanding of a word's usage in different situations while learning a word
subliminally with only one definition/comparative word in L1, could become misleading and
confusing.
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L-R is not subliminal.
1 person has voted this message useful
| jazzboy.bebop
Senior Member
Norway
norwegianthroughnove
Joined 5409 days ago
439 posts - 800 votes
Speaks: English*
Studies: Norwegian
| Message 10 of 12 21 October 2010 at 8:17pm | IP Logged |
Volte wrote:
jazzboy.bebop wrote:
Ari wrote:
I never understood the very common
"since only studying vocab won't get you
fluent, you shouldn't study vocab out of context" attitude. What's the logic there?
|
|
|
There is certainly nothing wrong with learning vocabulary out of context, it's just
that
when you compare this kind of subliminal learning to L-R which is a subliminal method
of
sorts, L-R has the added bonus of learning through context and will give more of an
understanding of a word's usage in different situations while learning a word
subliminally with only one definition/comparative word in L1, could become misleading
and
confusing.
|
|
|
L-R is not subliminal.
|
|
|
True enough as a method on the whole. I have however found I have learned vocabulary
unconsciously as well as consciously using L-R and that suggests to me that it does
have an element of subliminal learning to it. I did say a subliminal method of sorts,
though in retrospect I think I have framed L-R in the wrong light.
1 person has voted this message useful
| Volte
Tetraglot
Senior Member
Switzerland
Joined 6430 days ago
4474 posts - 6726 votes
Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian
Studies: French, Finnish, Mandarin, Japanese
| Message 11 of 12 22 October 2010 at 1:29am | IP Logged |
jazzboy.bebop wrote:
Volte wrote:
jazzboy.bebop wrote:
Ari wrote:
I never understood the very common
"since only studying vocab won't get you
fluent, you shouldn't study vocab out of context" attitude. What's the logic there?
|
|
|
There is certainly nothing wrong with learning vocabulary out of context, it's just
that
when you compare this kind of subliminal learning to L-R which is a subliminal method
of
sorts, L-R has the added bonus of learning through context and will give more of an
understanding of a word's usage in different situations while learning a word
subliminally with only one definition/comparative word in L1, could become misleading
and
confusing.
|
|
|
L-R is not subliminal.
|
|
|
True enough as a method on the whole. I have however found I have learned vocabulary
unconsciously as well as consciously using L-R and that suggests to me that it does
have an element of subliminal learning to it. I did say a subliminal method of sorts,
though in retrospect I think I have framed L-R in the wrong light. |
|
|
All learning has some 'unconscious' element; humans are incapable of introspecting about exactly how it's happening: even with, say, flash cards and rote memorization, you're clearly trying to learn something, and know you're using flash cards and trying to memorize, but you don't know exactly how that actually works.
Learning via input (including via L-R) feels a bit fuzzier, but I wouldn't categorize it as 'more unconscious', and definitely not as 'subliminal' (trying to do L-R with audio too quiet to consciously hear, or a text that's just below your visual threshold is probably not the way to go).
2 persons have voted this message useful
| jazzboy.bebop
Senior Member
Norway
norwegianthroughnove
Joined 5409 days ago
439 posts - 800 votes
Speaks: English*
Studies: Norwegian
| Message 12 of 12 22 October 2010 at 2:19pm | IP Logged |
Volte wrote:
jazzboy.bebop wrote:
Volte wrote:
jazzboy.bebop wrote:
Ari wrote:
I never understood the very common
"since only studying vocab won't get you
fluent, you shouldn't study vocab out of context" attitude. What's the logic there?
|
|
|
There is certainly nothing wrong with learning vocabulary out of context, it's just
that
when you compare this kind of subliminal learning to L-R which is a subliminal method
of
sorts, L-R has the added bonus of learning through context and will give more of an
understanding of a word's usage in different situations while learning a word
subliminally with only one definition/comparative word in L1, could become misleading
and
confusing.
|
|
|
L-R is not subliminal.
|
|
|
True enough as a method on the whole. I have however found I have learned vocabulary
unconsciously as well as consciously using L-R and that suggests to me that it does
have an element of subliminal learning to it. I did say a subliminal method of sorts,
though in retrospect I think I have framed L-R in the wrong light. |
|
|
All learning has some 'unconscious' element; humans are incapable of introspecting
about exactly how it's happening: even with, say, flash cards and rote memorization,
you're clearly trying to learn something, and know you're using flash cards and trying
to memorize, but you don't know exactly how that actually works.
Learning via input (including via L-R) feels a bit fuzzier, but I wouldn't categorize
it as 'more unconscious', and definitely not as 'subliminal' (trying to do L-R with
audio too quiet to consciously hear, or a text that's just below your visual threshold
is probably not the way to go). |
|
|
Good point, in that case it would definitely not be "subliminal" in the correct sense.
2 persons have voted this message useful
|
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