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Dialects that have been displaced? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| COF Senior Member United States Joined 5822 days ago 262 posts - 354 votes  Speaks: English* | Message 1 of 20 12 April 2012 at 2:40pm | IP Logged | |||||
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British English is now arguably less important than American English, and in many countries, even ex-British empire countries, where they once taught British English, they're now teaching American English as its seen as more relavent.
Even many Swedes and Dutch speak English with a clearly American influenced accent, despite being very close to the UK. I understand a similar thing has happened in Portuguese, with European Portuguese now being rather insignificant compared to Brazilian Portuguese. As far as I'm aware, this hasn't happened to Spanish to the same extent. In the US, European Spanish is still largely the standard that is used to teach "correct" Spanish, as while South American dialects are obviously far more common, they aren't considered "correct" in the same way that American English is considered every bit as "correct" as British English. Has this happened to any other languages other than the two examples I have highlighted? Edited by COF on 12 April 2012 at 2:44pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6588 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 2 of 20 12 April 2012 at 2:49pm | IP Logged | |||||
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These are all regional variants, not dialects.
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| Pisces Bilingual Pentaglot Senior Member Finland Joined 4613 days ago 143 posts - 284 votes Speaks: English*, Finnish*, French, SwedishC1, Esperanto Studies: German, Spanish, Russian | Message 3 of 20 14 April 2012 at 6:59pm | IP Logged | |||||
This doesn't agree with my personal experience. I went to high school in the United States and took Spanish. The teachers who were native speakers were Latin Americans (one Mexican, one Argentinian). The pronunciation we were taught was closer to the Mexican pronunciation than anything else (I think the Spanish pronunciation is harder for an American anyway), and we used materials (like newspaper articles) from Latin America more often than Spanish ones. Even though we were supposed to learn the vosotros forms, we never had to use them. When I moved to Europe and heard European Spanish more often, I thought it was odd and only began to like the sound of it after a few years. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| nway Senior Member United States youtube.com/user/Vic Joined 5406 days ago 574 posts - 1707 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Mandarin, Japanese, Korean | Message 4 of 20 15 April 2012 at 7:58am | IP Logged | |||||
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The UK is a $2.5 trillion economy of over 62 million of the world's richest and most linguistically influential people. When I first saw this thread's title, I assumed this would be about something like the Ningbo dialect of Wu or the Gipuzkoan dialect of Basque.
I realize, of course, that you're referring to it being displaced outside of its domestic borders, but English as a language was never particularly widely-spoken even at the height of the British Empire, relative to today. The exchange of a couple of programs from British English to American English doesn't negate the more significant fact that more people are learning English now than at any point prior, period. Besides, as long as people are still watching Monty Python and Doctor Who, "British English" (as an aggregate of all the hundreds of sub-divisional variants) will do just fine. ;) As for Spanish, I have only ever learned Latin American Spanish in school. I have certainly never, ever, heard of Latin American Spanish being considered "incorrect". I'm surprised that you, as an American, have apparently been exposed to European Spanish more so than Latin American Spanish. Perhaps you just happened to have, by luck, had European Spanish teachers in school..? Edited by nway on 15 April 2012 at 8:16am 5 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| COF Senior Member United States Joined 5822 days ago 262 posts - 354 votes Speaks: English* | Message 5 of 20 19 April 2012 at 6:36am | IP Logged | |||||
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No offence to the British, but I think you over-estimate the cultural and economic importance of the UK.
The UK has only remained broadly important today because of their, at least perceived closeness to America. Without the "special relationship", the UK is just another standard European country and most of their politician don't even try to deny it. In short, if you want to open up opportunities and the potential to "make it big", American English is the way to go. Few people learn British English anymore because the UK is a nation that is not a patch on what it once was and offers few opportunities and few cultural exports in comparison to the US. In fact, even the two TV series you mention, Monty Mython and Dr Who are old series, although admittedly Dr Who has made a comeback, its still based on an old series. Modern day British TV is not very popular outside the UK. People want to watch American TV, not British TV. In fact, modern British TV is as much a niche market outside its own country as Australian TV is. Edited by COF on 19 April 2012 at 6:38am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| nway Senior Member United States youtube.com/user/Vic Joined 5406 days ago 574 posts - 1707 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Mandarin, Japanese, Korean | Message 6 of 20 19 April 2012 at 7:39am | IP Logged | |||||
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That is simply not true.
The UK is not just "another standard European country", and part of this is indeed due to the fact that it is one of a select group of four major native Anglophone countries in the world. Canada, Australia, and the UK lead many other countries of comparable or even larger economies in fields like citations in scientific journals, disseminating popular culture, and attracting immigrants and investment capital. British newspapers like The Economist are read far more widely than German or Japanese newspapers. Canadian music artists are likewise far more successful abroad than Italian or Brazilian artists. And so on and so forth. Besides, this:
...rests on the completely incorrect assumption that British English couldn't be used in the US or couldn't be understood by speakers of American English. Maybe you haven't noticed, but folks like Simon Cowell, Pierce Morgan, Sharon Osbourne, Gordon Ramsay, Orlando Bloom, Sacha Baron Cohen, and Richard Branson are thriving quite handsomely in the US. And finally:
Yes, it offers fewer cultural exports than the largest cultural exporter in the world. Your point? Is anything less than the top spot completely insignificant? Consider how much the Eurozone was rocked by the sovereign debt crisis of tiny little Greece. Besides, few cultural exports? How about the most popular music artist of the year—Adele? Along with Amy Winehouse, Coldplay, Florence + the Machine, Franz Ferdinand, Leona Lewis, M.I.A., Mumford & Sons, Muse, Radiohead, Snow Patrol, Taio Cruz, the White Stripes, and countless more, not to mention all the immortal classics, from Radiohead to Queen to Black Sabbath to The Rolling Stones to a little group from Liverpool. Add to that television shows like Top Gear and Doctor Who, as well as book series both new (Harry Potter) and old (The Lord of the Rings) that have inspired some of the most successful film series in cinematic history. Add to this the BBC, along with the fact that all the reporters on Al Jazeera English do, indeed, speak the British standard. There are about 193 countries in the world. The UK is doing pretty damn well compared to most of them. Edited by nway on 19 April 2012 at 7:41am 10 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Khendon Newbie United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4600 days ago 13 posts - 31 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Japanese | Message 7 of 20 19 April 2012 at 8:55am | IP Logged | |||||
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English is English at the end of the day.
Minor differences in vocabulary aside, it is largely the same. It is understood By English speaking people everywhere, with regional accents providing more problems with Communication than minor differences in vocabulary. The difference in accent is arguably less pronounced between where I live and the other side of the Atlantic than it is if I drive 150 miles up the road in the UK. As for people learning "American English" as opposed to British English. I only really have anecdotal evidence but it is often more to do with where their English teacher comes from than anything. If you meet an English speaking Dutch person (one that doesn't have a distinctive Dutch accent) and they speak with an American accent, it is often because their English teacher was an American, and they are a fan of US tv shows. Most people I meet in my travels don't even label them specifically, English is English to them, unless they are a student of languages. The only people that seem hung up on the difference are the Americans and Brits. ;) Khen 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| clumsy Octoglot Senior Member Poland lang-8.com/6715Registered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5169 days ago 1116 posts - 1367 votes Speaks: Polish*, English, Japanese, Korean, French, Mandarin, Italian, Vietnamese Studies: Spanish, Arabic (Written), Swedish Studies: Danish, Dari, Kirundi | Message 8 of 20 19 April 2012 at 11:10am | IP Logged | |||||
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People in Poland still learn BrE.
If you go to a bookstore, the British flag is prelevant in English section. Ussualy you see American Flag on products that teach American English, or there are courses on it. "Learn American English in 1 week!" and the like. If they don't specify it, you are sure this teaches British variety. It was a little strange before we entered EU, since the mot English media is from America, but now when we are in... I think the British variety may be quite relevant. 4 persons have voted this message useful |
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