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Tonal Languages Require More Talent? | ||
Tags: Talent | Asian Languages | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| tanya b Senior Member United States Joined 4769 days ago 159 posts - 518 votes  Speaks: Russian | Message 1 of 40 30 April 2012 at 1:58am | IP Logged | ||
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I'm sick of people saying "learning a tonal language is just like learning any other language." People who say that are unfairly assuming that the abilities of other language learners are the same as theirs. I'm sorry, but for me, learning a tonal language is not like learning Spanish or Italian, where learning would be just a question of grammar and vocabulary. Tones are completely outside my frame of reference.
I am toying with the idea of studying, if not learning, a tonal language, but when I listen to them it just sounds like complete chaos. The words are short little rapid bursts, assaulting my ears. The speaker races on ahead, leaving me behind. I want to emphasize that, for me, all those monosyllabic words are just too short for my mind to latch on to. It is not the tones that are the problem, but the shortness of the words. At least when I hear IE languages which I do not speak, like Spanish or Farsi, I have some idea of where the words begin and end, but with a tonal language, I am completely lost. Sure, some Westerners can learn tonal languages, and it's so awesome that they can retrain their brain to the point of speeding up their react and response time, but I am not sure I have been gifted with that ability. I am coming to the conclusion that the "gradual improvement through repetition" model may not work with tonal languages. Even the hyperglots have their area of weakness. For Barry Farber, it was Polish. For Berlitz, it was Japanese. I don't especially like or feel passionate about the tonal languages of the Far East, but I feel they are just too important to ignore. And if I learn one, people will marvel at how smart I am. (haha) What I would like to know from any of you is if you were successful in learning a "European" language, but then failed miserably in trying to learn an "Asian" language. Edited by tanya b on 30 April 2012 at 2:01am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| LaughingChimp Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 4690 days ago 346 posts - 594 votes Speaks: Czech* | Message 2 of 40 30 April 2012 at 2:23am | IP Logged | ||
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I don't think it has to anything to do with those languages being tonal. You can't hear anything meaningful in unfamiliar languages whether they're tonal or not, that's perfectly normal. And tonality doesn't imply short words.
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| Carisma Diglot Senior Member Argentina Joined 5613 days ago 104 posts - 161 votes Speaks: Spanish*, EnglishC1 Studies: Italian, Mandarin | Message 3 of 40 30 April 2012 at 2:38am | IP Logged | ||
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I know you're talking about tones in a strict sense, but... Every language is tonal.
Anyone who speaks French or Spanish like a machine with no emotions sounds as foreign as someone who speaks Mandarin ignoring the tones. Ok, maybe ignoring tones in Mandarin is a lot more serious, but still. The tonal figure of a sentence in any language can alter its whole meaning, it can turn an affirmation to a question or a sarcastic comment. Edited by Carisma on 30 April 2012 at 2:48am 7 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| tastyonions Triglot Senior Member United States goo.gl/UIdChYRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4656 days ago 1044 posts - 1823 votes Speaks: English*, French, Spanish Studies: Italian | Message 4 of 40 30 April 2012 at 2:51am | IP Logged | ||
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When I first started learning the language, I perceived native French speech (on Internet radio news, for example) in the same way -- as a stream of uninterrupted syllables with no clear word boundaries, a flood of rushing sound most of which I doubted I could even write down phonetically with any accuracy.
Maybe this feeling would be even worse with a tonal language, I don't know. But now that I have experienced one language gradually seeming "slower" and more comprehensible as I learn to pick out words and phrases, I have more confidence that the same thing would happen with any language, given enough study and time. Edited by tastyonions on 30 April 2012 at 2:52am 6 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| tanya b Senior Member United States Joined 4769 days ago 159 posts - 518 votes Speaks: Russian | Message 5 of 40 30 April 2012 at 3:15am | IP Logged | ||
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Well, yesterday I was listening to a program in Lithuanian, and I don't speak a word of Lithuanian, but the intervals between the words at normal speed seemed much clearer to me, as opposed to tonal languages, which just seem to be a freeform audio blur. Edited by tanya b on 30 April 2012 at 3:20am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Ellsworth Senior Member United States Joined 4948 days ago 345 posts - 528 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Swedish, Finnish, Icelandic, Irish | Message 6 of 40 30 April 2012 at 3:31am | IP Logged | ||
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Isn't Lithuanian partially tonal?
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| Merv Bilingual Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5264 days ago 414 posts - 749 votes Speaks: English*, Serbo-Croatian* Studies: Spanish, French | Message 7 of 40 30 April 2012 at 6:53am | IP Logged | ||
It has pitch accent, just like Japanese, some dialects of Korean, and Serbo-Croatian, for example. But pitch accent is a far cry from full tones as in Chinese or Yoruba. 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Solfrid Cristin Heptaglot Winner TAC 2011 & 2012 Senior Member Norway Joined 5325 days ago 4143 posts - 8864 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian Studies: Russian | Message 8 of 40 30 April 2012 at 9:25am | IP Logged | ||
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With all the authority I can muster after two lessons of Pimsleur Mandarin, I'd say that we probably just need to invest A LOT more time learning a tonal language.
I struggled so hard with Russian in the beginning that I thought that would be impossible to learn, and although I still can't say I speak Russian, I have at least reched the level where it feels perfectly possible to one day do so. I listened to the first lesson of Pimsleur Mandarin three days ago, and it sounded like somebody had a sore throat. I have played it 6 or 7 times now, and I am slowly starting to recognize the words. I can still not remember them, but I am sure that will come with time. You do not get the immediate gratification of recognizing lots of words, but if you take your time I am sure you will get there. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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